Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] Change Travis in Alpine Continuous Integration

From: 7heo <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:50:06 +0200

On Jul 12, 2017 11:35 AM, Yves Schumann <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> Hi 7heo 
>
> Am 12.07.2017 um 03:23 schrieb 7heo: 
> > Jenkins is a terrible, bloated software, that is a gigantic pain to install and maintain, let alone use. 
> >... 
>
> Sorry to say that but this kind of answer let me always think if I need 
> to laugh or beeing angry. I'm hearing such statements always from people 
> who came from a pure Unix a/o Linux world, who see Java as the 
> Armageddon of the IT and not even have an idea of the power and 
> possibilities which a tool like Jenkins offers. So it sounds like the 
> common answer, unfortunately. :-( 
>
> Build automation or CI/CD in general is my daily business and I know the 
> different available tools. If you say it's a "gigantic pain to install 
> and maintain", then I'd like to know which part is the real pain. Where 
> is there something difficult a/o expensive? And even the "bloated" 
> argument, for me inappropriate. Why/how do you came to such conclusions? 
>
> To let Jenkins run for some testing and play around, you simply need to 
> type _one_ line! Even to install it as a service is a common task. You 
> can customize Jenkins exactly for your needs, that's the power of a 
> plugin system. You can scale it exactly to your requirements. I'm 
> maintaining different Jenkins installations with hundreds and even 
> thousands of jobs and there are all kinds of jobs with of course a 
> majority of build jobs. So you can automate nearly everything with it or 
> even let setup build jobs fully automated by Jenkins itself. 
>
> Not to just talk without some facts: Beside my daily business Jenkins 
> administration I'm maintaining the Jenkins instance of the OSS projects 
> fli4l [1] and eisfair [2]. The distro eisfair-ng is based on Alpine 
> Linux and the CI of eisfair-ng [3] is fully automated and builds our 
> packages. If a new package was added, the corresponding Jenkins job will 
> be generated automatically and some minutes after a Git push the new 
> package is available on the pkg repo. 
>
> "In the end, and to go back on topic" to use your words, you really 
> suggest to use minimalistic solutions because of Alpine's goal to be a 
> minimalistic distro? Interesting! I think most of the users do _not_ use 
> minimalistic tools around Alpine as their base system. Why would someone 
> do this? Why should I resign to some comfort if it is just available? 
> How do you write Emails or Documents? How do you develop software? Even 
> if I'm very happy that there are base tools like vi available as an 
> anchor in case of whatever can happen, I'm happy to use comfortable 
> tools around the Alpine base system. But anybody as he wishes. If it's 
> ok for you to build using some kind of cron jobs, why not. ;-) 
>
> Unfortunately the day is always too short with only 24 hours, so I 
> cannot bring in more time for such tasks on Alpine itself. I even got 
> problems to find enough time for fli4l and eisfair-ng so we also spot 
> the issue with not enough man power. So I hope the Alpine'ians find a 
> proper solution for their CI/CD. 
>
> Kind regards, 
> Yves 
>
>
> (A sidenote: At the moment we struggle with our EOL hardware. This is 
> the reason why there are a lot of jobs on [3] currently disabled or not 
> at the latest version. As soon as this is solved the whole system will 
> be setup to build for the latest Alpine release.) 
>
> [1] https://www.fli4l.de/ 
> [2] https://www.eisfair.org/ 
> [3] https://ssl.nettworks.org/ci/

Thank you very much Yves for taking the time and effort to unequivocally demonstrate my point.

7heo.
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From: Shiz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:06:27 +0200

> On 12 Jul 2017, at 11:50, 7heo <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> R{.n�+��yׯz_�˛���m�b���zX�+�w�i�w�z��X�ƥ�)ޖ)�Ɗ�

Please tone down the passive-aggressiveness a little.
You may not agree with what he has to say, but a comment like
this has little relevance or addition to the subject at hand.

- Shiz

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