Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:22:11 -0700 (PDT)
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From: chris.spillane@gmail.com
To: "Isaac Dunham" <ibid.ag@gmail.com>
Cc: "Natanael Copa" <ncopa@alpinelinux.org>, "Alpine-devel"
 <alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org>, "Carlo Landmeter"
 <clandmeter@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Interface names (WAS: [alpine-devel] eudev pushed to git
 master (edge))
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I'd also like to see us stick with ethX / wlanX naming convention if =
possible



=E2=80=94
Sent from Mailbox

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Isaac Dunham <ibid.ag@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 09:52:12AM +0200, Natanael Copa wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 11:35:50 +0200
>> Carlo Landmeter <clandmeter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> > I also have the feeling I have to cleanup older (automatic) udev rules=
,
>> > because my nic name has changed into something weird.
>> > I didnt look into it too much, but i think people should really watch =
out
>> > with updating edge if they don't want to break anything.
>>=20
>> For the record. As mentioned on IRC, The NIC name change is to get
>> persistent and predictable net interface names.
>>=20
>> https://github.com/gentoo/eudev/blob/master/src/udev/udev-builtin-net=5F=
id.c#L20
> At the latter qualification (predictable) it fails, if you're talking =
about
> mortals.
>> To get back the old style names you can do:
>>=20
>>   ln -s /dev/null /etc/udev/rules.d/80-net-name-slot.rules
> I'd used =22touch=22, but ln -s /dev/null is probably better since it
> also discards future modifications.
>> This also means that which NIC becomes eth0 and eth1 etc is
>> unpredictable.
>>=20
>> We will need a long term solution for this.
>>=20
>> The problem is that kernel will assign net interface name based on what
>> order they are discovered during coldplug. The way we have worked
>> around this in Alpine is that we sort the modaliases before doing
>> modprobe. That way eth0 will become eth0 every reboot, even after
>> kernel upgrades.
> Using =22sort -u=22 is also desireable because it means that repeats of =
the
> same hardware only provoke one module load (if you have multiple
> USB buses or ethernet cards from the same manufacturer).
>> Udev developers has other solution for this problem: invent a new
>> naming standard for network interfaces.
>>=20
>> I think we want keep whatever is current for people who are upgrading.
>> But for new installs, what do we do=3F How do we name the network
>> interfaces=3F
>>=20
>> Do we want udev users and non-udev users have same interfaces names, or
>> do we want let users who don't want udev keep the old, traditional
>> inerface naming and let users who chose udev to get whatever upstream
>> udev does=3F
>>=20
>> How do we make sure that interface names does not change after =
reboot=3F
>>=20
>> Do we want be (partially) compatible with other distro's way to name
>> interfaces=3F (even a bad naming standard might be better than no =
naming
>> standard)
> I, for one, *do* *NOT* *want* udev-style names.
> The kernel developers worked for years on moving from driver-specific
> names to =22ethN=22/=22wlanN=22 interface names. =22Predictable=22 =
interface naming
> a la udev not only reverses those gains, it makes things worse since
> anyone who isn't using udev code can't predict interface names even
> if they know the driver.
> Udev's approach means that if I pull out a network card and replace it,
> I have to reconfigure /etc/network/interfaces or whatever else I use.
> For what it's worth, Debian Jessie (and Devuan Jessie) use
> /lib/udev/write=5Fnet=5Frules to make the kernel name that they detect =
first
> persistent.
> Thanks,
> Isaac Dunham
> ---
> Unsubscribe:  alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org
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<div>I'd also like to see us stick with ethX / wlanX naming convention if =
possible</div>
<div class=3D=22mailbox=5Fsignature=22>
<br>=E2=80=94<br>Sent from <a href=3D=22https://www.dropbox.=
com/mailbox=22>Mailbox</a>
</div>
<br><br><div class=3D=22gmail=5Fquote=22><p>On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 4:08 PM=
, Isaac Dunham <span dir=3D=22ltr=22>&lt;<a href=3D=22mailto:ibid.ag@gmail.=
com=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>ibid.ag@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br></p><blockquote class=3D=22gmail=5Fquote=22 style=3D=22margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;=22><p>On Mon, Jul 20, =
2015 at 09:52:12AM +0200, Natanael Copa wrote:
<br>&gt; On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 11:35:50 +0200
<br>&gt; Carlo Landmeter &lt;clandmeter@gmail.com&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; &gt; I also have the feeling I have to cleanup older (automatic) =
udev rules,
<br>&gt; &gt; because my nic name has changed into something weird.
<br>&gt; &gt; I didnt look into it too much, but i think people should =
really watch out
<br>&gt; &gt; with updating edge if they don't want to break anything.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; For the record. As mentioned on IRC, The NIC name change is to =
get
<br>&gt; persistent and predictable net interface names.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; https://github.com/gentoo/eudev/blob/master/src/udev/udev-builtin-=
net=5Fid.c#L20
<br><br>At the latter qualification (predictable) it fails, if you're =
talking about
<br>mortals.
<br><br>&gt; To get back the old style names you can do:
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;   ln -s /dev/null /etc/udev/rules.d/80-net-name-slot.rules
<br><br>I'd used =22touch=22, but ln -s /dev/null is probably better since =
it
<br>also discards future modifications.
<br><br>&gt; This also means that which NIC becomes eth0 and eth1 etc is
<br>&gt; unpredictable.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; We will need a long term solution for this.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; The problem is that kernel will assign net interface name based on=
 what
<br>&gt; order they are discovered during coldplug. The way we have worked
<br>&gt; around this in Alpine is that we sort the modaliases before doing
<br>&gt; modprobe. That way eth0 will become eth0 every reboot, even after
<br>&gt; kernel upgrades.
<br><br>Using =22sort -u=22 is also desireable because it means that =
repeats of the
<br>same hardware only provoke one module load (if you have multiple
<br>USB buses or ethernet cards from the same manufacturer).
<br><br>&gt; Udev developers has other solution for this problem: invent a =
new
<br>&gt; naming standard for network interfaces.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; I think we want keep whatever is current for people who are =
upgrading.
<br>&gt; But for new installs, what do we do=3F How do we name the network
<br>&gt; interfaces=3F
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; Do we want udev users and non-udev users have same interfaces =
names, or
<br>&gt; do we want let users who don't want udev keep the old, =
traditional
<br>&gt; inerface naming and let users who chose udev to get whatever =
upstream
<br>&gt; udev does=3F
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; How do we make sure that interface names does not change after =
reboot=3F
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; Do we want be (partially) compatible with other distro's way to =
name
<br>&gt; interfaces=3F (even a bad naming standard might be better than no =
naming
<br>&gt; standard)
<br><br>I, for one, *do* *NOT* *want* udev-style names.
<br><br>The kernel developers worked for years on moving from =
driver-specific
<br>names to =22ethN=22/=22wlanN=22 interface names. =22Predictable=22 =
interface naming
<br>a la udev not only reverses those gains, it makes things worse since
<br>anyone who isn't using udev code can't predict interface names even
<br>if they know the driver.
<br>Udev's approach means that if I pull out a network card and replace it,=

<br>I have to reconfigure /etc/network/interfaces or whatever else I use.
<br><br>For what it's worth, Debian Jessie (and Devuan Jessie) use
<br>/lib/udev/write=5Fnet=5Frules to make the kernel name that they detect =
first
<br>persistent.
<br><br>Thanks,
<br>Isaac Dunham
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<br><br></p></blockquote></div><br>
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