Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 10:57:29 -0400
From: Dubiousjim <dubiousjim@gmail.com>
To: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org
Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] futher apk ideas
Message-ID: <20130701145729.GC1550@zen>
Mail-Followup-To: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org
References: <cover.1372361242.git.dubiousjim@gmail.com>
 <20130628154631.4d18107d@ncopa-desktop.alpinelinux.org>
 <20130628163747.GB1712@zen.nyu.edu>
 <20130628171945.GD1712@zen.nyu.edu>
 <20130701151533.079b3256@ncopa-desktop.alpinelinux.org>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20130701151533.079b3256@ncopa-desktop.alpinelinux.org>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)

On Mon, Jul 01, 2013 at 03:15:33PM +0200, Natanael Copa wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 13:19:45 -0400
> Dubiousjim <dubiousjim@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Again, I'm not especially fond of the particular choice -N/--needed.
> > Just using it because I don't have something better.
> 
> agree. Not too fond of -N/--needed either. 'needed' sounds like a synonym for 'depends'

Whoops, I meant it to be --needers, which is even uglier but less likely
to be misinterpreted.
> 
> maybe -b/--required-by or some combination of -b and --needed-by/--required-by.
> 
> for recursing the reverse deps (apk del/apk info) maybe
> --recurse-required-by or --recurse-needed-by
> 
> I think -b and -B are 'free'. 'B' as in required-'B'y/needed-'B'y or
> 'B'ackwards.

I like this idea. I was regretting that -U was unavailable, for
--upwards, but something like -B/--needed-by scratches the same itch.
Hadn't considered that.

Concerning -r/--rdepends: well, in the first place I hanker for
consistency, and if this is the way to get it, ok. Though I'm not
enthusiastic about using -r or --rdepends.  Maybe it's just a bad
association I have with MacPorts, who do use that, and every time I go back
to using MacPorts for something, after months away, I get all the option names
confused with each other. If we're using something -R-like for
"recurse", I'd prefer something un-R-like for reverse dependencies. The
-B or -b options look more appealing.

> > > I think recursive operation makes no sense for apk info, but for apk
> > > search, yes.
> > 
> > No, I've several times had to hand-script recursive operations for "apk
> > info". If you're just going downwards, then you could use apk search
> > too; but you might want to go recursively upwards, limited just to
> > installed packages.
> 
> When and why would you need something like that?

Machine A had gradually accumulated a lot of unorganized entries in
/etc/apk/world. Now I'm setting up machine B (another Alpine machine)
and machine C (an OS X machine, using MacPorts). I want to clean up the
world on machine A so as to be able to more clearly review which
of the entries there are redundant (i.e., it's required by some other
packages), and in which cases where there's a redundancy do I want to
leave it in place, and in which other cases do I want to remove the
entry from /etc/apk/world, though leaving the package installed.
This is all so that I can have the cleanest view of what's on machine A,
so as to make it easier to decide what I want and what I don't want on
machines B and C. Stuff like that.

Perhaps I could have just used `apk del --simulate`. That option hadn't
occurred to me. Instead I crafted a complex, ad hoc shell command.


> > Options for fix command:
> >   -R, --recursive         Recursively fix all dependencies too
> >   -d                      Synonym for -R (deprecated)
> 
> Those are good IMHO.
> 
> >   -r, --reinstall         Reinstall the package (default) <--- would
> > prefer not to have "apk del -r" be canonical, to avoid confusion with
> > other uses of "-r" like this
> 
> We could maybe remove (or mark as deprecated) -r/--reinstall for apk
> fix, since it is the default now anyways.

+1


> > Options for info command: (or "apk info --world", if we go that route)
> >   -d, --description       Print description for PACKAGE
> >   -D, --depends           List packages that the PACKAGE (directly) depends on
> >   -R                      Synonym for -D (deprecated)
> 
> I'm ok with those. (But i think I'd be ok to keep -R too for --depends)
> 
> >   -N, --needed            List all installed packages (directly) depending on PACKAGE
> >   -r                      Synonym for -N (deprecated)
> > 
> > Except we might introduce breakage here and have -R combine with -D and
> > -N to make them recursive.
> 
> I understand what you mean, and, yes you definitively have a point
> here.
> 
> But, lets say that you want figure the total size (including
> depends). Now, you'd want run 'apk info --recursive -s' but you'd don't
> want print the --depends. (specially if we fix 'apk info -q -s pkg' to
> print '<size> <pkgname>' so it could be sort -n, or similar)
> 
> So, basically, we need differ 'print depends' and 'run recursively on
> depends'. I don't think we can use -R in combination with
> --depends/--needed/--rdepends.

That's a good point.

-- 
Dubiousjim
dubiousjim@gmail.com


---
Unsubscribe:  alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org
Help:         alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org
---