X-Original-To: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org Received: from mail-lf0-f67.google.com (mail-lf0-f67.google.com [209.85.215.67]) by lists.alpinelinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A07355C4C44 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 06:03:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail-lf0-f67.google.com with SMTP id x16so444472lfb.4 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:03:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xYuTI23sIO8Q8Pnbz8oP+LgvTbMDgSJ8+wFPPCbkoTA=; b=j7N77ttBYntIEWxAzzrGSYt+qOq9I5sxuf/SPIKhhZfRc1R6m1NKN8BKxHMdrtoSWv 95NOpIeVXBWdrWzPLguEirKpyMOJZZmLlzesltVaS6enFCOG29LEpF7z80N0Fz2RWgyq OzxkTUezA7t3/8lsalOtxXZjlkXzbeDbbi8liG8RvTonGxBRUKzILFBuJHNdvAP03wbk en332XiaZ5OHz3vPrN8ecX4CfeXIf/eZXCG2BPeqGtv4XgmuZYL87id+bUlpoFZkRjw2 P4ldHts/KqJ8kMl0wmwtpNcO/VrIkkRVPbRK3qhKl8DAiTJLgAg/W58BJ5kzKNKDXyxp ZfVw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xYuTI23sIO8Q8Pnbz8oP+LgvTbMDgSJ8+wFPPCbkoTA=; b=tikrbNttG1XESeOcDhLsnZOW/pFrpS5/iq8qB5HxLFMpTJB9HhKZPZeUzDgqBjEr2y WdYo9huzLudtcsqiz2Z4n9yXYK1nyOes/OgzQCoAF9QGcfFQY+FpEgYJk7bt5y1srIC8 9gQFPSyYtyeUgVcSrCzBOeZH7sJglWcD0fSQqog0545y9K/GC22m/ITzivwz5CfVGgwN yc/NpRDzD/dKcd17dnW50LddpR3fCejgvXHs8Y5ciRQ+n0tJPDgzm66Bb1hz0OQLMDNz C9obJpB6E9QE3/KPv069/1qaG03s5R36Mt46A/nUI4/JLp6T1NPu1S3Ui85T8d2O1Rui r3fw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113BBOLfP/i3/yTgBpGthUwWViDZ+QOv3RP3Gjk4scafdAHFVeVb F8/BwXCDT/2S6w== X-Received: by 10.25.17.20 with SMTP id g20mr5513746lfi.122.1501567388724; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vostro.util.wtbts.net ([2001:1bc8:101:f402:e66f:13ff:fef3:8cd0]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b20sm5753205lfh.88.2017.07.31.23.03.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Sender: =?UTF-8?Q?Timo_Ter=C3=A4s?= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 09:03:05 +0300 From: Timo Teras To: Natanael Copa Cc: William Pitcock , alpine-dev Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] a discourse on the troubles of being an alpine developer these days Message-ID: <20170801090305.211e1451@vostro.util.wtbts.net> In-Reply-To: <20170731220555.7a6c09aa@ncopa-desktop.copa.dup.pw> References: <20170731220555.7a6c09aa@ncopa-desktop.copa.dup.pw> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.15.0-dirty (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-alpine-linux-musl) X-Mailinglist: alpine-devel Precedence: list List-Id: Alpine Development List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 22:05:55 +0200 Natanael Copa wrote: > On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 02:57:57 -0500 > William Pitcock wrote: >=20 > > Natanael in his role as the person who founded the project quickly > > stepped in to apologize, but, yet again, no sanction has occurred > > because of it. History repeats itself: the core team is too > > cowardly to actually sanction the behaviour. =20 >=20 > I talked with him. He actually came to me immediatly after, realizing > it was a mistake. I didn't think there was need for any sanctions. It would be good to try to communicate that privately to all involved parties. It's easy to assume things went without any attention. Preferable the offender should reconcile the offended one. But it also goes the other way. Even if we are offended by someone, we should not offend them back or ask / except for sanctions in case it's not a repeat offender. If people learn from their communication mistakes, it's much bigger win than punishing them. Being friendly means we also forgive offensive talk (when they realize the mistake - not when they repeatedly do so). And yes, this requires humility from all of us, especially those who are long timers here. We get criticism, and we need to be able to take it. > > One of the solutions proposed, in part, to curb the behaviour of > > that particular clique was a Code of Conduct. Instead, they > > hijacked the process of authoring a Code of Conduct by jumping out > > in front of it by being the first to propose text for a Code of > > Conduct: > >=20 > > http://lists.alpinelinux.org/alpine-devel/5663.html =20 >=20 > He submitted a Code of Conduct because I asked him to do so. > Unfortunally it came at a time when I didn't have time (or energy) to > comment on it. While this serves probably as a good training to learn code of conduct, it is also problematic, or at least can appear to be so for others. In Finnish this would be called: Pukki kaalimaan vartijana =E2=80=93 =E2=80=98a goat guarding a cabbage patc= h=E2=80=99. Meaning: Giving a task to someone with a conflict of interest. Then again if the exact same message would have come from ncopa, I guess all would have been happy. So it's good to remember to focus on the message and not the messenger. For me, hijack would involve changing the intent and/or content. This did not happen. The message just came from someone not having freedom of speech in the area, so I understand it may have offended some. However, it's also shows greater friendliness when we do accept this kind of notes - as long as the content is in line (which is the case here). As said, we've grown a lot recently, and arrival of "people incompatibilities" was inevitable. We were not really prepared for it. Hopefully we don't need to spend time resolving them. I really hope we don't need formal "court" for handling these. But perhaps, it's time to make some procedure. Mostly to signal that repeat offenders are not tolerated, and to not give the appearance if inaction. Timo --- Unsubscribe: alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org Help: alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org ---