From: Shiz <hi@shiz.me>
Message-Id: <412A395A-202C-490A-B113-C5580CCD4AE4@shiz.me>
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Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] Code of Conduct
Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 02:21:11 +0200
In-Reply-To: <b9e377ea-d214-6a1f-df7d-06c4ec37f13e@mail.com>
Cc: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org
To: 7heo <7heo@mail.com>
References: <b9e377ea-d214-6a1f-df7d-06c4ec37f13e@mail.com>


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Hi Theo,

First, thanks for doing this =E2=80=94 I believe that adopting a CoC =
will help us
provide handles to those in the community who see or are subject to =
abusive
behaviour to address them in a safe and productive manner.

There=E2=80=99s two (not too fundamental) issues I see with your current =
proposal:

1) The wording of clause 3. While I understand what you=E2=80=99re =
trying to say,
   the way it is being said seems far from neutral (and possibly wrong, =
as
   I=E2=80=99m sure under a lot of circumstances I would be considered a =
=E2=80=9Csocial
   justice warrior=E2=80=9D, as well many people that would want to =
contribute to
   Alpine), needlessly scaring people off in this especially charged
   political climate. I believe this section could be reworded in a far
   more neutral manner while still preserving its intention, maybe like =
this:

   =E2=80=9CThis document is to be used as stated in clause 1 for the =
health of the
    community, not as a beating stick for other people. Please assume =
the
    best intentions of people to a reasonable degree, and try to talk =
out
    differences first =E2=80=94 sometimes people simply misunderstand =
each other.=E2=80=9D

   I see William also proposed another variant on IRC that I may like =
even
   better:

   "Participants may disagree on the methods or opinions of others, but =
it
    is important to maintain the assumption of good faith.  Alpine is a =
diverse
    project representing many viewpoints, and as such, disagreements are =
likely
    to occur.  It should be assumed that all participants are working =
for the
    advancement of the project.=E2=80=9D

   Where I=E2=80=99d possibly append =E2=80=9C and community=E2=80=9D to =
the last sentence.
2) Clause 4 currently lacks examples of appropriate actions that can be =
taken
   by the community. I think it=E2=80=99s important to at least note the =
scope of these
   actions, so people realise that it is serious and can lead to more =
than
   simply a slap on the wrist. Maybe adding an additional clause with =
something
   like the following text may help elaborate on that:

   =E2=80=9CAppropriate measures depend on the nature and severity of =
the case in
    question and may range from, but are not limited to, official =
warnings to
    temporary or permanent exclusion from community communication =
channels and
    removal of developer status or other conferred privileges.=E2=80=9D

And a few mostly random, smaller thoughts:
* Maybe clause 2 should be expanded a bit to not just include direct =
personal
  attacks but also situations like harassment, stalking, and doxxing;
* I=E2=80=99d change the =E2=80=9Cand=E2=80=9D in clause 6 to and or, as =
harassment behaviour within the
  Alpine community may not directly pertain to Alpine-related software. =
In my
  opinion it should relate to both the community and the software that =
arises
  from it.
* Clause 5 nicely defines Alpine developers, but we have no such =
definition yet
  for Alpine community moderators. Maybe adding a simple one would be =
helpful
  for people to identify who to address complaints to?

Again, thanks for doing this, and I hope we can have an inclusive but =
concise
CoC at the end. :)

- Shiz

> On 12 May 2017, at 00:49, 7heo <7heo@mail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hey people,
>=20
> a few of us have been discussing every now and then the possibility of =
ever needing a CoC.
>=20
> Following an exchange of opinions with some of the long-time Alpine =
developers today, I decided to come up with a CoC asap, for two reasons:
>=20
> 1. Abuses in the community would have an objective ground to be fought =
on.
> 2. Nobody could then come claiming we do not have a CoC and present us =
with a much more harmful and complex alternative (as it has been the =
case in many open source projects already)
>=20
> Here goes my proposal (followed by explanations for each point), =
loosely based on the proposals from the PostgreSQL mailing list:
>=20
> Alpine (AKA Alpine-Linux and Alpine-OS) Code of Conduct (CoC)
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
> 1. This CoC is to provide community guidelines for creating and =
enforcing a safe, respectful, productive, and collaborative place for =
any person who is willing to contribute in a safe, respectful, =
productive and collaborative way.
>=20
> 2. A safe, respectful, productive and collaborative environment is =
free of personal attacks and disparaging remarks of any kind, including, =
but not limited to, racial, ethnic, gender-related, religious, =
political, sexual-orientation related slur.
>=20
> 3. This CoC is not about being offended, nor giving weapons to so =
called social justice warriors. One should always assume good =
intentions. As with any diverse community, anyone would otherwise =
eventually get offended at something.
>=20
> 4. Any sustained disruption of the collaborative space (mailing lists, =
IRC etc.) or other Alpine events shall be construed as a violation of =
this CoC and appropriate action will be taken by the Alpine community =
moderators.
>=20
> 5. Any amendment made to this CoC should be approved by all Alpine =
developers (i.e. all people who have commit rights on the repositories).
>=20
> 6. The CoC is only about interaction with the Alpine community. Your =
private and public lives outside of the Alpine community are your own. =
Any issue arising outside of the Alpine community and not directly =
technically related with the Alpine maintained software shall neither be =
discussed nor arbitrated within the community.
>=20
> ----
>=20
> Explanations:
>=20
> 1. Alpine is about contribution first, community second. The community =
only exists for the sole purpose of contributing together to Alpine. Not =
the other way around.
>=20
> 2. Such an contribution-welcoming environment can only happen when =
people leave their personal different at the door. Toxic behavior (like =
personal attacks) have no place in our community. i.e.: "Your work =
sucks" is fine while "you suck" isn't.
>=20
> 3. The FOSS community has recently seen a drastic increase of lobbying =
for exclusion, and censoring attempts, against some contributors, from =
certain groups. Offensive and toxic behavior within the community will =
be dealt with according to point two. Offensive and toxic behavior =
outside of it will be ignored according to point six.
>=20
> 4. As explained in point one, the main and foremost goal of our =
community is to support contribution. Anything threatening or impeding =
contribution is therefore directly harming the primary goal of our =
mailing lists and IRC channels; and has to be prevented.
>=20
> 5. Again, as explained in point one, the goal of the community is =
contribution. This CoC, discussing it, and all the work related to it =
are wasted time in regards to the technical progress. This requirement =
is meant as a discussion deterrent, as it will be pointless to discuss =
any proposal to the CoC as soon as one developer disagrees.
>=20
> 6. We do not care if you torture kittens or beat up puppies outside of =
our community. As long as you are keeping things separated, we will.
>=20
> ----
>=20
> I hope I made it well enough that we do not have to spend too much =
time discussing it.
>=20
> Theo.
>=20
>=20
> ---
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> Help:         alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org
> ---
>=20


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