From nobody Fri Mar 29 11:38:59 2024 Received: from mx1.mailbun.net (unknown [170.39.20.100]) by nld3-dev1.alpinelinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04930782C86 for <~alpine/devel@lists.alpinelinux.org>; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:37:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nanabozho.lan (unknown [107.125.25.71]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ariadne@dereferenced.org) by mx1.mailbun.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D556144D1A for <~alpine/devel@lists.alpinelinux.org>; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:37:47 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=dereferenced.org; s=mailbun; t=1617745067; bh=YPz/hN5n1BxHJX+G1suhLEyCqH9dtXzF+K20fBVrGS8=; h=Date:From:To:Subject; b=N7CWzC+d1ha4BmF2R64MpvJaRJO4f2ZJxxkxGNC/57skQZnZNdp7yMMUX1MckQYbt aKYGGNtbas4ROWN4yqqj9QwU0YfgxNI2I/se5cU7KmvW/tcS2lF3Llb6OnZOS3i0dq p7TUFqh3hOoJWmVMgv+Dsl0fyAQagR118RMLReKuoKJzPnI8PJAEi+F6GRbjUkP8fe 7qyq4TkmCyrf/HyUbOHkVE3UtPZAtak+zSIvmvsLBsBQZ0dq1Y6qkJI07MatTcsMbk 4yEIwoYQqYrq+vzioEXe0lxhthQF8IU9bpx+vlbcvVB3YvIOnYblH7gxttXLV0lQ5C GmPxAyeamuywA== Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 15:37:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Ariadne Conill To: ~alpine/devel@lists.alpinelinux.org Subject: [3.15] System change proposal: Replace GNU gettext with gettext-tiny Message-ID: <4a164bb9-3ba9-886-643a-132399eeda5b@dereferenced.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Hello, This proposal largely has to do with switching to Musl 1.2's gettext implementation instead of GNU gettext. Doing so will allow for more programs to be built with gettext support. In order to switch to Musl 1.2's gettext implementation, we will need to switch to gettext-tiny, which is a set of programs that generate gettext catalogs in the format that Musl's implementation expects. Other distributions in the Musl ecosystem have already switched to gettext-tiny, such as Sabotage and Adelie. ## Benefits to Alpine * GNU Gettext is removed from the bootstrap path. This simplifies the bootstrap path as we do not have to deal with building a gettext implementation. Instead, gettext-tiny can become part of $makedepends_host, so we do not have to worry about bootstrapping it. * The gettext locales generated by gettext-tiny are smaller. This means the $pkgname-lang packages will be slightly smaller than they are now. * The gettext implementation built into musl does not require any additional dependencies. This means that our dependency trees will be simpler, as they will no longer have to deal with GNU libintl. ## Contingency Plan If there is a problem with gettext-tiny, we will switch back to GNU gettext and libintl. Ariadne From nobody Fri Mar 29 11:38:59 2024 Received: from cogitri.dev (cogitri.dev [207.180.226.74]) by nld3-dev1.alpinelinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1398782CCC for <~alpine/devel@lists.alpinelinux.org>; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 06:38:13 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 08:38:10 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cogitri.dev; s=mail; t=1617777492; bh=bjqAAWZk3pZOu8UKhm2BNocLrJ+MtQhf1FW/vmyp5rk=; h=In-Reply-To:References:Subject:To:From; b=EviMr3HSmBoeYCoJ7yi7RZHdssknpW+M4abC8iKcugM5a8fjCrX3BcBpiKTz1X7Hk ukyhBpXJadZnn+iZ4O59ULYv+N1NoJdtjYZsyn/8cxPrXGq20DiYsKvi3kzlA6Zptu yOegJu2yZJclbfINNrB8TFpWcEpO+I8w46Z6z/ZFHDM9Eu9XpixTl6ubWfM3594AZ4 6DqVCZXOIRqVLJv07KrSpC0fJjFARfjjxwhMDduTTlzcgiNAb3SVpq5Kq65DM4IwEP 9YBoq/jibZpkcQa2y62vLLRXcQeayykoaNIMGOjR/WrFVRg1PAWZI7PKG+IFnHJRMZ ARpHcGGZldHzQ== In-Reply-To: <4a164bb9-3ba9-886-643a-132399eeda5b@dereferenced.org> References: <4a164bb9-3ba9-886-643a-132399eeda5b@dereferenced.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----9VQWWI8GHMGIFRMMXMQS8VHW8G2EF1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [3.15] System change proposal: Replace GNU gettext with gettext-tiny To: ~alpine/devel@lists.alpinelinux.org,Ariadne Conill From: Rasmus Thomsen Message-ID: ------9VQWWI8GHMGIFRMMXMQS8VHW8G2EF1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, sounds good to me=2E How would we proceed here? * Make musl-dev provide gettext=2Eh by default * Remove gettext-dev as dep everywhere, replace with gettext-tiny * Done? Regards, Rasmus Thomsen On 6 April 2021 23:37:48 CEST, Ariadne Conill = wrote: >Hello, > >This proposal largely has to do with switching to Musl 1=2E2's gettext=20 >implementation instead of GNU gettext=2E Doing so will allow for more=20 >programs to be built with gettext support=2E > >In order to switch to Musl 1=2E2's gettext implementation, we will need >to=20 >switch to gettext-tiny, which is a set of programs that generate >gettext=20 >catalogs in the format that Musl's implementation expects=2E > >Other distributions in the Musl ecosystem have already switched to=20 >gettext-tiny, such as Sabotage and Adelie=2E > >## Benefits to Alpine > >* GNU Gettext is removed from the bootstrap path=2E > >This simplifies the bootstrap path as we do not have to deal with >building=20 >a gettext implementation=2E Instead, gettext-tiny can become part of=20 >$makedepends_host, so we do not have to worry about bootstrapping it=2E > >* The gettext locales generated by gettext-tiny are smaller=2E > >This means the $pkgname-lang packages will be slightly smaller than >they=20 >are now=2E > >* The gettext implementation built into musl does not require any > additional dependencies=2E > >This means that our dependency trees will be simpler, as they will no=20 >longer have to deal with GNU libintl=2E > >## Contingency Plan > >If there is a problem with gettext-tiny, we will switch back to GNU=20 >gettext and libintl=2E > >Ariadne --=20 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E ------9VQWWI8GHMGIFRMMXMQS8VHW8G2EF1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello,

sounds good to me=2E How would we pr= oceed here?

* Make musl-dev provide gettext=2Eh by default
* Remo= ve gettext-dev as dep everywhere, replace with gettext-tiny
* Done?
<= br>Regards,

Rasmus Thomsen


On = 6 April 2021 23:37:48 CEST, Ariadne Conill <ariadne@dereferenced=2Eorg&g= t; wrote:
Hello,

This proposal largely has to do with s= witching to Musl 1=2E2's gettext
implementation instead of GNU gettext= =2E Doing so will allow for more
programs to be built with gettext sup= port=2E

In order to switch to Musl 1=2E2's gettext implementation, w= e will need to
switch to gettext-tiny, which is a set of programs that = generate gettext
catalogs in the format that Musl's implementation expe= cts=2E

Other distributions in the Musl ecosystem have already switch= ed to
gettext-tiny, such as Sabotage and Adelie=2E

## Benefits t= o Alpine

* GNU Gettext is removed from the bootstrap path=2E

= This simplifies the bootstrap path as we do not have to deal with building =
a gettext implementation=2E Instead, gettext-tiny can become part of <= br>$makedepends_host, so we do not have to worry about bootstrapping it=2E<= br>
* The gettext locales generated by gettext-tiny are smaller=2E
This means the $pkgname-lang packages will be slightly smaller than they =
are now=2E

* The gettext implementation built into musl does not= require any
additional dependencies=2E

This means that our de= pendency trees will be simpler, as they will no
longer have to deal wit= h GNU libintl=2E

## Contingency Plan

If there is a problem wi= th gettext-tiny, we will switch back to GNU
gettext and libintl=2E
<= br>Ariadne

--
Sent from my Android devi= ce with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E ------9VQWWI8GHMGIFRMMXMQS8VHW8G2EF1-- From nobody Fri Mar 29 11:38:59 2024 Received: from mx1.mailbun.net (unknown [170.39.20.100]) by nld3-dev1.alpinelinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE407782CB1 for <~alpine/devel@lists.alpinelinux.org>; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 16:28:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nanabozho.lan (unknown [107.125.25.71]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ariadne@dereferenced.org) by mx1.mailbun.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 621A6144D7B; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 16:28:14 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=dereferenced.org; s=mailbun; t=1617812894; bh=ktw+3YaiVgv6/20Pmp5koopmw6uTgHDmV3O4CDSCwOY=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=KrHb1LE8ySOUIsveT1q6OmIpadJdbZR3rYikjOXCjQ9E3lHd5wx8qXdd+I/cA+wvu oRwYMByIi9BcPJiLoYKkZGDShj0cJ4r7AzEcki/0zd8A5GTwsCxAQOJUS9JHetBhdO ON/uSPopPWPlpgt2FUetk+O9cDAg9kNBLpv+MMpobZylYRwSJYQ8hoeLXPiJNxS5pK ntxeAT7acVTtXI+RiBbwvXXoh4MGX/ah016STDCqXSjRn3sggY0B8+KnyZclTpZqIt Vs4ddBYZI3+gpIcXIB3hpQi/ScntYzpATo2J1cke8AmSTNzSvczjYDbgsCvnJ4xRmm 1m8XfVTCpxMUQ== Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 10:28:15 -0600 (MDT) From: Ariadne Conill To: Rasmus Thomsen cc: ~alpine/devel@lists.alpinelinux.org, Ariadne Conill Subject: Re: [3.15] System change proposal: Replace GNU gettext with gettext-tiny In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4a164bb9-3ba9-886-643a-132399eeda5b@dereferenced.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hello, On Wed, 7 Apr 2021, Rasmus Thomsen wrote: > Hello, > > sounds good to me. How would we proceed here? > > * Make musl-dev provide gettext.h by default > * Remove gettext-dev as dep everywhere, replace with gettext-tiny > * Done? Precisely. Ariadne From nobody Fri Mar 29 11:38:59 2024 Received: from wolfsden.cz (wolfsden.cz [37.205.8.62]) by nld3-dev1.alpinelinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A33B782C5C for <~alpine/devel@lists.alpinelinux.org>; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 11:20:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wolfsden.cz (Postfix, from userid 110) id B50EE4AEA29; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 11:20:39 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on wolfsden X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_ALL autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from localhost (unknown [128.0.188.242]) by wolfsden.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 404244AD57B; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 11:20:39 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 13:20:38 +0200 From: Wolf To: Ariadne Conill Cc: ~alpine/devel@lists.alpinelinux.org Subject: Re: [3.15] System change proposal: Replace GNU gettext with gettext-tiny Message-ID: <20210407112038.2t5gkym6hsdwetvs@wolfsden.cz> References: <4a164bb9-3ba9-886-643a-132399eeda5b@dereferenced.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="apzndzesmscjhmke" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4a164bb9-3ba9-886-643a-132399eeda5b@dereferenced.org> --apzndzesmscjhmke Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, On 2021-04-06 15:37:48 -0600, Ariadne Conill wrote: > ## Benefits to Alpine > ## Contingency Plan Out of curiosity, both in this and the other thread you are listing just the benefits and contingency plan. Are there any detriments as well? Any features we (well, the program) would lose access to? I have no idea what the feature matrix for both the implementations is and if anything interesting/useful would be lost with the switch. Just to add, it's not that I disagree with the switch (or even, it's not like my opinion matters anyway :) ), but I would like to see these proposals to be more balanced, even if the "Detriments" section would contain single sentence "None, both have identical features.". W. --=20 There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. --apzndzesmscjhmke Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEE7BIrb0FxyZaks1p7hTP5S2N55TgFAmBtlYYACgkQhTP5S2N5 5ThXtBAAougszR4QYIt4E9w8Ea0HvUb+1pbzAutQbfzCxrl6Bsm7UhZWjfBhPI2P OZZFxZtvh7d327cMnDXdwsokoHu7WlL8ekaBHFIt1a2zDsSz7En2n7EgghGrj1GN U/Sx22wdyy3jYrGWO6pCPQDHUOja+oeRkOT76itOOHFffYvMpYrhKs1u2LbTzwwu S04vgb19AuvUzY0GZLgBkkJRBAL8kf3xHK0or6c6uf6crLpAQZW4/RcsuNTq7APn KFeqU6z1FSU178aR5+XSdARK6jexAS0iApFIVOnCa6hu6n/pVF6/mJ8FjjfM6Bej Yj9dmdBZDpnwlpNLDp/B/sV6UFa0vqUEqz6A+bGXAnVXgQClI2hsEykFvxd/rMCq tOnw/lZwGm94TMgPa9g6DdH+WX8XMkw3A7vdbDvkrqQaTplXhzUuT/Nr+V2+a07q /Il2d7IjZjswVqOJttlIS8Wd2jG/rEV8YiG1Qyc+ZYhwArP/ngKh+/qgxKIJSLm2 oFv4P2/B65NmmUonpVLqy+tiNUsHa+9eG0hsP0AoyASZuUkYRSbMejDcC2ZdBtjq HjTDMrIi/RLRgCgA6IrQ7xWldV26X1V14qgkHwHi2ttDrlPoWpA3TPJF/Hw/hRlg 3XnNzrCblaeoIcMtlxbPFWKMB4GuW2/yDQuU6CmqiOm0ZxEbO8Q= =zlyN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --apzndzesmscjhmke--