Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] Change Travis in Alpine Continuous Integration
To: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org
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From: Yves Schumann <yves@eisfair.org>
Message-ID: <4d2655c8-5599-6f19-36e9-faa32256a0f3@eisfair.org>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:35:23 +0200
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Hi 7heo

Am 12.07.2017 um 03:23 schrieb 7heo:
> Jenkins is a terrible, bloated software, that is a gigantic pain to install and maintain, let alone use.
>...

Sorry to say that but this kind of answer let me always think if I need 
to laugh or beeing angry. I'm hearing such statements always from people 
who came from a pure Unix a/o Linux world, who see Java as the 
Armageddon of the IT and not even have an idea of the power and 
possibilities which a tool like Jenkins offers. So it sounds like the 
common answer, unfortunately. :-(

Build automation or CI/CD in general is my daily business and I know the 
different available tools. If you say it's a "gigantic pain to install 
and maintain", then I'd like to know which part is the real pain. Where 
is there something difficult a/o expensive? And even the "bloated" 
argument, for me inappropriate. Why/how do you came to such conclusions?

To let Jenkins run for some testing and play around, you simply need to 
type _one_ line! Even to install it as a service is a common task. You 
can customize Jenkins exactly for your needs, that's the power of a 
plugin system. You can scale it exactly to your requirements. I'm 
maintaining different Jenkins installations with hundreds and even 
thousands of jobs and there are all kinds of jobs with of course a 
majority of build jobs. So you can automate nearly everything with it or 
even let setup build jobs fully automated by Jenkins itself.

Not to just talk without some facts: Beside my daily business Jenkins 
administration I'm maintaining the Jenkins instance of the OSS projects 
fli4l [1] and eisfair [2]. The distro eisfair-ng is based on Alpine 
Linux and the CI of eisfair-ng [3] is fully automated and builds our 
packages. If a new package was added, the corresponding Jenkins job will 
be generated automatically and some minutes after a Git push the new 
package is available on the pkg repo.

"In the end, and to go back on topic" to use your words, you really 
suggest to use minimalistic solutions because of Alpine's goal to be a 
minimalistic distro? Interesting! I think most of the users do _not_ use 
minimalistic tools around Alpine as their base system. Why would someone 
do this? Why should I resign to some comfort if it is just available? 
How do you write Emails or Documents? How do you develop software? Even 
if I'm very happy that there are base tools like vi available as an 
anchor in case of whatever can happen, I'm happy to use comfortable 
tools around the Alpine base system. But anybody as he wishes. If it's 
ok for you to build using some kind of cron jobs, why not. ;-)

Unfortunately the day is always too short with only 24 hours, so I 
cannot bring in more time for such tasks on Alpine itself. I even got 
problems to find enough time for fli4l and eisfair-ng so we also spot 
the issue with not enough man power. So I hope the Alpine'ians find a 
proper solution for their CI/CD.

Kind regards,
Yves


(A sidenote: At the moment we struggle with our EOL hardware. This is 
the reason why there are a lot of jobs on [3] currently disabled or not 
at the latest version. As soon as this is solved the whole system will 
be setup to build for the latest Alpine release.)

[1] https://www.fli4l.de/
[2] https://www.eisfair.org/
[3] https://ssl.nettworks.org/ci/



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