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Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] Alpine ports layout
From: Jakub Jirutka <jakub@jirutka.cz>
In-Reply-To: <241E8EA7-EC60-4FDF-8CB4-8DF55E0762C1@student.tudelft.nl>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 18:06:14 +0200
Cc: =?utf-8?Q?C=C3=A1g?= <ca6c@bitmessage.ch>,
 "alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org" <alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org>
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Message-Id: <60D510F7-8D5E-42BA-9AB0-71BE0231AA0D@jirutka.cz>
References: <1498870383-12828-1-git-send-email-assafgordon@gmail.com> <20170829085033.6002c914@vostro.util.wtbts.net> <20170901193628.GB31533@alpine.my.domain> <59A9BBA6.1080805@adelielinux.org> <20170901202757.GA9914@alpine.my.domain> <3B3AC404-2958-4FF1-B54A-586130A89222@jirutka.cz> <241E8EA7-EC60-4FDF-8CB4-8DF55E0762C1@student.tudelft.nl>
To: Shiz <hi@shiz.me>

>>>> Does OpenSSH belong in security/, net/, admin/, or something else?
>>>=20
>>> security. net/ is for dhcpcd/openvpn/vnc kind of stuff. admin/ =
doesn't
>>> even exist in Net/OpenBSDs.
>>=20
>> Why? This is just arbitrary decision, it=E2=80=99s not obvious nor =
intuitive. On Gentoo, I usually remember package name, but not the =
category, so I must always look in what damn category the package is =
located.
>=20
> I=E2=80=99d like to add to this that I think security is possibly the =
worst category
> out of the given choices to put this in. OpenSSH=E2=80=99s purpose is =
not primarily
> security =E2=80=94 its primary purpose is administering a system =
remotely, security
> is simply a bycoming necessity for that.
>=20
This just demonstrates weakness of categories. Categories (usually =
defined as: object may be in a single category only, categories are a =
predefined and narrow set of names) are almost always worse idea and =
does not really suite real world. Tags (usually defined as: object may =
have multiple tags, tags are an open set of names) are almost always =
better. It=E2=80=99s very obvious in this case, so I hope it=E2=80=99s =
not needed to prove it by studies=E2=80=A6

>>> Anyway, if there would be a heated discussion on where a port whould =
be
>>> placed, we can look at BSDs and simply copy. Take a quick glance at
>>> pkgsrc.se, I think the way the ports are organised is sane.
>>=20
>> Alpine Linux is not BSD. If you want BSD=E2=80=99s repository layout, =
use BSD.
>=20
> This is really not an argument on its own, as we take plenty of cues =
from BSD.
> I like categorisation too but I=E2=80=99m not quite sure if it would =
fit for us, however.

Yes, but still arguments in style =E2=80=9CBSD has this, so we should =
too=E2=80=9D should be invalid.

>> Again, Alpine is not BSD and it=E2=80=99d be quite silly to blindly =
adopt practices from BSD, especially in packaging (I=E2=80=99ve never =
heard anything positive about packaging on BSD even from BSD users=E2=80=A6=
)
>=20
> For the record, I have, and also from Gentoo=E2=80=99s packaging =
system which takes cues
> from BSD as well.

Gentoo packaging system is very different from package manager that does =
not even properly handle dependencies, big pile of Makefiles, basically =
absence of sane update mechanism for ports=E2=80=A6 Anyway, this is =
irrelevant.

The main point is that adding categories (like in Gentoo or BSD) to =
improve discoverability of packages is provably very, very bad and =
insufficient solution and we know about much better solutions.

Jakub=


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