Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 03:41:10 +0100
In-Reply-To: <5A25DE1D.6020602@adelielinux.org>
References: <20171204203039.GA18601@miku> <663B8B1D-79B7-42AE-8B25-A76E821FA54D@shiz.me> <5A25DE1D.6020602@adelielinux.org>
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Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] Alpine features and the future
To: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org,"A. Wilcox" <awilfox@adelielinux.org>
From: Jakub Jirutka <jakub@jirutka.cz>
Message-ID: <8D4CA20B-0098-420F-BA07-8978473FAFB4@jirutka.cz>

> The amount of things that are broken by not having `useradd` is
insane=2E

Maybe on Ad=C3=A9lie, I've never encountered any issue on Alpine from not =
having useradd=2E=2E=2E

> Alpine build scripts
still think `adduser` and `addgroup` are the way to go=2E

Hm, we really should add a declarative way for creating users/groups in ab=
uilds=2E Not (just) because of Ad=C3=A9lie, the current approach has more p=
roblems=2E

> I could also write wrappers the other way around=2E=2E=2E

I was thinking about this several times, but always something more importa=
nt appeared=2E I also don't like some behaviour of adduser=2E

> BTW, is there a reason Alpine doesn't ship shadow as a base dep?

Alpine's philosophy is small, simple and secure=2E shadow is not very smal=
l and it depends on PAM which is everything but small and simple=2E Moreove=
r, it's mostly not really needed and useful=2E I surely don't wanna this in=
 *base* system=2E

Jakub

(I'm sending this mail from mobile, so please forgive me typos etc=2E)

On 5 December 2017 00:45:33 CET, "A=2E Wilcox" <awilfox@adelielinux=2Eorg>=
 wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA256
>
>On 04/12/17 17:00, Shiz wrote:
>>> On 4 Dec 2017, at 21:30, Drew DeVault <ddevault@vistarmedia=2Ecom>
>>> wrote: I would also recommend just porting shadow over using
>>> busybox user management tooling=2E I think `useradd` et al has a
>>> more Unix design than `adduser` et al=2E Thankfully the shadow
>>> codebase hasn't yet been corrupted beyond saving by the broader
>>> Linux ecosystem's influence=2E
>>=20
>> Definitely agree with this=2E I am also of the opinion that `useradd`
>> and friends seem more commonly used, and it=E2=80=99s a shame to have t=
o
>> recommend using the shadow package for everyone that wants to
>> either use it themselves or have tooling using it=2E
>
>
>The amount of things that are broken by not having `useradd` is
>insane=2E  We ship shadow in base in Ad=C3=A9lie anyway, so this isn't to=
o
>big of an issue, but what is an issue is that Alpine build scripts
>still think `adduser` and `addgroup` are the way to go=2E  Our builders
>don't have busybox so I had to write clumsy shell shims to 'translate'
>them=2E
>
>I can send them to the list if anyone would be interested; normally I
>would put a link, but our Git server ENOSPC'd and I'm still trying to
>clean up the pieces before bringing the web interface back online=2E
>
>I could also write wrappers the other way around if Alpine is really
>tied to using `adduser` and `addgroup` so that build scripts can use
>`useradd` and `groupadd` without a dependency on shadow=2E
>
>BTW, is there a reason Alpine doesn't ship shadow as a base dep?  Does
>Alpine really recommend use of tcb, or is it some other system?  I've
>never been able to figure this out and in fact this is why I gave up
>trying to deploy Alpine at my last employer=2E  We used LDAP and I
>couldn't for the life of me make Alpine login(1) use it=2E
>
>
>> s6 with a porcelain layer still seems very interesting
>
>
>+1=2E
>
>
>Best,
>- --arw
>
>
>- --=20
>A=2E Wilcox (awilfox)
>Project Lead, Ad=C3=A9lie Linux
>http://adelielinux=2Eorg
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