X-Original-To: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org Received: from luna.geeknet.cz (luna.geeknet.cz [37.205.9.141]) by lists.alpinelinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6E45C455D for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2016 14:13:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by luna.geeknet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9A110547AC; Sun, 3 Jul 2016 16:13:46 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jirutka.cz; s=mail; t=1467555226; bh=Eg5Yh6e4JYs3tR5W+KikqyRAgm4wXeXDsgewILrP6OA=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=Gpej4FNgM6GTdxDXAbHZKpMJLq8eviETF7akPGHT6fvgvuUxhZ9JptNUK9hqF7xRN JO2KAHxihHEtWA6iKN6OdufYDN9EJ7dlNHtVtVkv9EICWFRS/qLy4gktbcGgPfIdeK atrUUxvaDNzjqE/auigXTr/+elN9H94o/4yde10s= Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B2213CBA-2879-4532-AD1F-CBB89AD171A5"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 X-Mailinglist: alpine-devel Precedence: list List-Id: Alpine Development List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] smdev From: Jakub Jirutka In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 16:13:41 +0200 Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=E1g?= , alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org Message-Id: References: <174bbc5214754cfa31d9156ec1e78660@riseup.net> To: Alba Pompeo --Apple-Mail=_B2213CBA-2879-4532-AD1F-CBB89AD171A5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >> =85it doesn=92t have all its features. What features does it miss exactly? I can=92t find in on the provided = page or inside the smdev=92s repository. >> The benefits are: you don=92t need BusyBox for it=85 Busybox is a base of the Alpine=92s userland, so we have it anyway. >> By the way, I don=92t know why Alpine doesn't use mdev, to me it = seems to be the most appropriate variant=85 Alpine does use mdev by default (at least in alpine-virt variant, not = sure about full-fledged). I personally use mdev on all my servers, VMs and bear metal, Alpine and = Gentoo. I believe that mdev is fully sufficient for most of the server = and embedded use cases. (e)udev=92s monster complexity is needed maybe = just for desktops if at all (not sure, I don=92t use Linux on desktop). > I agree with C=E1g about the absence of textual configuration files. = It=92s an advantage because it keeps complexity down. Yes, but just until you need to change something=85 > Almost no user will change their smdev config options=85 Maybe I=92m biased here because I=92ve already needed to modify the = Alpine=92s mdev.conf several times. > But if the user really wants to, I see no problem with config.def.h This means to recompile the smdev binary (note: you need gcc). Then you = can install it directly from the sources and it=92ll be the same, i.e. = you will not benefit from aport. Overwriting binaries managed by apk is = really not a good practice IMO. I really don=92t see any *practical* benefit for Alpine. We need BusyBox = anyway, so why to replace BusyBox=92s mdev with smdev that is just less = flexible (no config file)? Also it will mean supporting three instead of = two (mdev, eudev) udev packages, because smdev package would not replace = mdev for all use cases (imagine how you tell average user to recompile = smdev himself/herself instead of just modify simple config file; Alpine = is not LFS or Gentoo). Jakub On 3. Jul 2016, at 15:51, Alba Pompeo wrote: > I agree with C=E1g about the absence of textual configuration files. > It's an advantage because it keeps complexity down. > Almost no user will change their smdev config options, that's > something Alpine will have sane defaults for. > But if the user really wants to, I see no problem with config.def.h > [0]. /usr/src to the rescue. > I remember smdev developers talked about wanting to integrate it on > Alpine in the past, here on the mailing list. > I think ncopa wants it too, but had problems with hotplugging (?) I = think. > But it looks like C=E1g has solved that problem. Let's wait and see if > ncopa thinks now smdev is ready (for 3.5 alpine release?). >=20 > Ciao! >=20 > [0] http://git.suckless.org/smdev/tree/config.def.h >=20 > On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 10:35 AM, C=E1g wrote: >> Jakub Jirutka wrote: >>=20 >>> I wonder, what are the differences between mdev and smdev? What are >>> the benefits of smdev for end users? >>=20 >>=20 >> smdev is IIRC a fork of mdev (or maybe was, probably it was = rewritten) >> that is compatible with it [0], though it doesn't have all its = features. >> The benefits are: you don't need BusyBox for it and it is smaller >> (almost thrice as short in terms of LOC). It does what it says - >> manages device nodes, and does it well. >>=20 >>> I currently see one significant drawback - smdev (and all other >>> suckless projects) doesn't support textual configuration files. This >>> approach doesn't go well with binary distributions; users can't = simply >>> change any settings. I understand the reasons behind using header >>> files for config, but the fact is that it's not very convenient for >>> users. >>=20 >>=20 >> For me, it's rather an advantage. Once configured you go with it. = Actually >> I've never modified my udev rules, they always worked for me and with = smdev >> I use >> the default config.h because it works just fine. Anyway, if users = need to >> modify the rules, I'd put the source inside /usr/src and let them do = it :) >>=20 >> By the way, I don't know why Alpine doesn't use mdev, to me it seems = to be >> the >> most appropriate variant (or does it? I heard it uses eudev. I = currently >> have >> no chance to check it out). >>=20 >> If ye need more info about smdev, please consult the link down below = and the >> code. >> Also, write to dev at suckless dot org, since I am not an smdev = developer. >>=20 >> Sl=E1inte, >> C=E1g >>=20 >> [0]:http://core.suckless.org/smdev >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --- >> Unsubscribe: alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org >> Help: alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org >> --- >>=20 >=20 >=20 > --- > Unsubscribe: alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org > Help: alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org > --- >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B2213CBA-2879-4532-AD1F-CBB89AD171A5 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIL1zCCBeIw ggPKoAMCAQICEGunin0K14jWUQr5WeTntOEwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwx 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