X-Original-To: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org Received: from mail-wm0-f52.google.com (mail-wm0-f52.google.com [74.125.82.52]) by lists.alpinelinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 417205C4D38 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:49:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail-wm0-f52.google.com with SMTP id b76so4467262wmg.1 for ; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:49:36 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sofKuOfW90dhWSGhpcVGiI90Hgw0ZoeZViFdplX5k6U=; b=BJ4BjyZQnibPxgGJVODFsc1yuw0vaTnaf2gQMZUjPS3v7ugIGH8zj0EOugbSaDnn2i hiyX78eH5obd4d13Lk8AxQ/EWjZ8DyfGrvlzt+ge6AYfQUo5A5T6elnpLD7o5N5oNNVu dE2d2pB86DnX1+/Qzqpa2h/bb5PFxJRhAG7WEq8U2kZR+IadXtH3KnQQwLCnM8Ns7Vuo TVi+UZJAGqsxXGNFO01X3s5R3MvAEu83m2GoSIdJ+RzAs5QC3tR3QY4rsQVo8qpTg5ES Vujnvg7O7jmGzn0eJQAL2/FCkdWDZPhiuG/+ZO878hDzzhpmtZIGMAomP/aPFriUv2AT S6nQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7f4GCYASYq+X8FzNS3QvIn1nD/BxXsou7Gy18JoFt3Y5NBdNKi GBfO2Ws6B0o3n2osW7ZLaw+gc+JBfD8tS97IPpQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZQnnheHBgzli5Plby5eYQVZMO8ZgoaGA3adrYFFETO8lHX/vAyju4mMS0tFrcFZc5mrarRvjiQgIKR9mYHDps= X-Received: by 10.28.196.70 with SMTP id u67mr1865317wmf.100.1512146975339; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:49:35 -0800 (PST) X-Mailinglist: alpine-devel Precedence: list List-Id: Alpine Development List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20171123224046.0d21352b@ncopa-desktop.copa.dup.pw> <5A19D088.6040806@adelielinux.org> <39316FB2-BAB3-4357-82FC-32FB65EF5AB8@mowsey.org> <20171129181404.4df7941b@ncopa-desktop.copa.dup.pw> <5B02BCE4-04A7-4389-A7F3-BD44477A9C6D@jirutka.cz> In-Reply-To: From: Kiyoshi Aman Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:49:24 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] Alpine Linux 3.7.0 Release Candidate 1 on VirtualBox To: Jakub Jirutka Cc: Gennady Feldman , alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c19451e50400b055f4a27a8" --94eb2c19451e50400b055f4a27a8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have hardware which will not boot in 'legacy BIOS' mode at all (Atom x5-Z8330-based Intel compute stick), and while VMs don't necessarily need to emulate that, it can be helpful to force EFI-only boot for debugging purposes. On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 10:44 AM Jakub Jirutka wrote: > Hi Gennady, > > Any reason you are against enabling it? > > > I=E2=80=99m not strongly against it, I just prefer to keep number of enab= led > features at minimum (and yes, I know that the current configs are exactly > opposite). I don=E2=80=99t see any added value of EFI for VMs. Actually I= can > hardly see it even for physical HW, it just allowed vendors to add more > crap and bloat into it, but that=E2=80=99s a different story. > > It other devs don=E2=80=99t mind adding these features, let=E2=80=99s do = it. > > Jakub > > On 1. Dec 2017, at 16:10, Gennady Feldman wrote: > > Hi Jakub, > > Was thinking a bit more about virt + EFI.. Any reason you are against > enabling it? It looks like various VM platforms have already added or are > adding EFI support to replace "legacy BIOS" as part of the VM environment= . > > Right now that kernel doesn't boot and from the looks of it it's only > enabling 2 modules. > > P.S. Can somebody bump community/virtualbox-guest-additions/APKBUILD > 5.1.26 =3D> 5.1.30? > > Thank you, > > Gennady > > On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Gennady Feldman wrote= : > >> HI Jakub, >> >> I am going to answer what I know ( I am sure others will have their own >> reasons). I have Virtualbox 5.1.30 (there's also 5.2.x out) installed on >> Windows 7. >> Right now from what I can see it's NOT a requirement, but the option is >> there. >> >> I did download and try to play a bit with the 3.7rc3 both virt and >> standard. Virt doesn't even boot. Standard seems to be fine as long as I >> don't install the virt kernel and try to boot with it. >> >> From what I read EFI seems like the replacement for BIOS and should >> provide a number of benefits including a better/bigger console (which I >> like quite a bit, kinda hate doing console installs >> using legacy BIOS inside VirtualBox) and faster boot time among other >> things. I might even convert my Alpine VMs to use it once virt kernel >> supports it. >> >> I guess from MBR <=3D> GPT perspective it could go either way. Things mi= ght >> get interesting with bigger external volumes, but not for something I am >> working/messing with right now. >> >> setup-disk does some interesting stuff in EFI mode: >> - boot has hard-coded 512 (which seems quite high?) >> - creates a swap partition (2G for me). I would love to turn that off if >> I am running inside VirtualBox or being able to choose. >> >> I also wanted to ask if it would make sense to have "setup-virtualbox" >> script that would install virtualbox packages and tweak some things for = VMs >> running inside VirtualBox. >> >> Thank you, >> >> Gennady >> >> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Jakub Jirutka wrote: >> >>> Wait, VirtualBox *requires* EFI now? If not, why to enable it in kernel >>> for VMs? >>> >>> Jakub >>> >>> On 30. Nov 2017, at 15:50, Gennady Feldman wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> From a quick look looks like: >>> CONFIG_EFI=3Dy >>> CONFIG_EFI_STUB=3Dy >>> >>> are missing from the virthardened config. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Natanael Copa >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Thanks you very much for testing. >>>> >>>> I think the most critical issues are fixed. I have not bothered fix th= e >>>> eject issue, since I think it mostly affects virtualbox only. >>>> >>>> I haven't looked at the alpine-virt + efi issue, yet. I suppose there >>>> are some kernel modules that are needed? >>>> >>>> Can you please re-run the tests with the 3.7.0_rc3? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> -nc >>>> >>>> On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 21:39:02 -0500 >>>> Jack Schmidt wrote: >>>> >>>> > Here are my notes on Alpine 3.7.0 rc1 installations using VirtualBox >>>> hosted on x86_64 Darwin. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Summary: >>>> > >>>> > * Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual on BIOS just work (minor >>>> issues) >>>> > * Standard, Extended, Vanilla on EFI has one major issue (bad fsck) >>>> > * Virtual is broken on EFI (no kernel support) >>>> > >>>> > In each case I tried to do a base install to an IDE disk, as "sys", >>>> default options. I also tried booting the ISO as a run-from-ram system= . >>>> Virtual on EFI requires a serial console, but otherwise all ISOs >>>> run-from-ram smoothly. >>>> > >>>> > The fsck issue needs to be fixed. The 4.9.63 vs 4.9.59 should be >>>> fixed. The Virtual EFI probably should be fixed, but is easily >>>> worked-around by end users. The minor issues would be nice to increase >>>> adoption of bootable alpine, but aren't necessary. I assume docker >>>> containers are just fine: I use edge all the time without trouble. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual legacy BIOS minor issues: >>>> > >>>> > * Install boot might be too quiet for too long >>>> > >>>> > The BIOS boot takes 5 to 20 seconds, so the "quiet" option in >>>> boot/syslinux/syslinux.cfg might need to be accompanied by a "say" or = a >>>> "menu autoboot" type thing. Grub EFI boot is mostly better, but someti= mes >>>> takes a long time between messages. The installed version is a little = slow, >>>> but has a reasonable amount of messages to let you know it is progress= ing. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual both BIOS and EFI minor issues: >>>> > >>>> > * After setup-alpine is complete, eject cdrom >>>> > * Install boot and installed root use different kernels, rescue is >>>> hard >>>> > * (hardened/virthardened) Guest additions kernel version problem >>>> > >>>> > Install for BIOS works easily on Standard, Extended, Vanilla, >>>> Virtual. Install for EFI works easily on Standard, Extended, Vanilla, = but >>>> fails for Virtual. >>>> > >>>> > After the install, setup-alpine asks to reboot, but doesn't "eject >>>> -s" (-s required for me) the cd. That means alpine reboots under the >>>> readonly cdrom with a tmpfs. This works fine, but is surprising if you= are >>>> installing software. >>>> > >>>> > After the eject, system comes up much more noisily / green, so >>>> probably reassuring. >>>> > >>>> > However, it comes up under 4.9.59-0-*hardened or 4.9.65 vanilla, so >>>> one can't use the ISO's 4.9.63 kernel to boot a rescue. If it isn't to= o >>>> much trouble, for the final 3.7 release, it'd be good if the kernel ma= tched >>>> on the ISO's boot and the ISO's apk. >>>> > >>>> > Guest additions (mostly not needed by me) are hard to load, since >>>> they are in /lib/modules/4.9.65-* but the kernel is actually 4.9.59-*.= Once >>>> that is fixed, all good. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Standard, Extended, Vanilla EFI issue (vfat.fsck) >>>> > >>>> > * 1.5GB disk required >>>> > * vfat.fsck >>>> > >>>> > Alpine is known for it's very small size. The ISOs are a nice size. = I >>>> have a VM that runs off a 10MB iso, and the Virtual ISO is good at und= er >>>> 40MB. I was trying out ubuntu variations and had to choose my physical >>>> network to handle the each-iso-is-a-gig downloads. Alpine is very easy= to >>>> try. However, the new EFI install creates a 500MB /boot/efi partition = to >>>> hold 500KB of boot data. It might be worthwhile to check the total siz= e of >>>> the disk, and not use so much on it for smaller (1 or 2 gig) drives. >>>> > >>>> > More importantly /boot/efi fails its fsck due to a syntax error: >>>> > >>>> > fsck.vfat: unrecognized option: C >>>> > >>>> > This is from /etc/init.d/fsck. Since the fsck service fails, most of >>>> the rest of the boot is not really attempted. / is mounted read-only. >>>> Network is down. >>>> > >>>> > Remounting / rw, removing the -C0 from fsck, and rebooting is OK. Yo= u >>>> still get a scary error, but the system comes up fine. >>>> > >>>> > See also https://bugs.alpinelinux.org/issues/8090 for raspberry pi >>>> breakage and suggested fix (seems reasonable to me: write a simple she= ll >>>> script wrapper for fsck.vfat and fsck.fat that ignores ext2/3/4 argume= nts). >>>> > >>>> > I think this must be fixed before a release. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Virtual EFI fail >>>> > >>>> > Virtual's virthardened kernel lacks EFI support (even in module >>>> form). Also it is worse on VirtualBox EFI since it also lacks video >>>> drivers. The serial console works, but is hard to use (telnet lacks >>>> tab-completion, GNU screen requires socat, and only one terminal). Sin= ce >>>> /sys/firmware/efi is not available, setup-disk does not realize it was= an >>>> EFI boot and does everything wrong. >>>> > >>>> > I suspect it would be a good idea to include EFI support for the >>>> Virtual ISO / virthardened kernel too. The fix would make Alpine seem = more >>>> reliable and would cut down on the "why is the screen black?" question= s. >>>> However, to workaround it is easy to turn off EFI, and legacy BIOS is = more >>>> standard for virtual machines, I believe. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > --- >>>> > Unsubscribe: alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org >>>> > Help: alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org >>>> > --- >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Unsubscribe: alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org >>>> Help: alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org >>>> --- >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > -- -- Kiyoshi Aman --94eb2c19451e50400b055f4a27a8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have hardware which will not boot in 'legacy BIOS= 9; mode at all (Atom x5-Z8330-based Intel compute stick), and while VMs don= 't necessarily need to emulate that, it can be helpful to force EFI-onl= y boot for debugging purposes.

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 10:44 AM Jakub Jirutka <jakub@jirutka.cz> wrote:
Hi Gennady,

Any reason you are against enabling it?
<= /div>

I=E2=80=99m not strongly against it, I just = prefer to keep number of enabled features at minimum (and yes, I know that = the current configs are exactly opposite). I don=E2=80=99t see any added va= lue of EFI for VMs. Actually I can hardly see it even for physical HW, it j= ust allowed vendors to add more crap and bloat into it, but that=E2=80=99s = a different story.

It other devs don=E2=80=99t min= d adding these features, let=E2=80=99s do it.

Jakub

On 1. Dec 2017= , at 16:10, Gennady Feldman <gena01@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Jakub,

Was thinking a bit more about virt + EFI.. A= ny reason you are against enabling it? It looks like various VM platforms h= ave already added or are adding EFI support to replace "legacy BIOS&qu= ot; as part of the VM environment.

Right now that kernel doesn= 't boot and from the looks of it it's only enabling 2 modules.
<= br>
P.S. Can somebody bump community/virtualbox-guest-additions/APKBUI= LD 5.1.26 =3D> 5.1.30?

Thank you,

Gennady
<= /div>

On Thu, Nov = 30, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Gennady Feldman <gena01@gmail.com> wrote= :
HI Jakub,

I am going to = answer what I know ( I am sure others will have their own reasons). I have = Virtualbox 5.1.30 (there's also 5.2.x out) installed on Windows 7.
= Right now from what I can see it's NOT a requirement, but the option is= there.

I did download and try to play a bit with the 3.7rc3 = both virt and standard. Virt doesn't even boot. Standard seems to be fi= ne as long as I don't install the virt kernel and try to boot with it.<= br>
From what I read EFI seems like the replacement for BIOS and s= hould provide a number of benefits including a better/bigger console (which= I like quite a bit, kinda hate doing console installs
using legac= y BIOS inside VirtualBox) and faster boot time among other things. I might = even convert my Alpine VMs to use it once virt kernel supports it.

<= /div>I guess from MBR <=3D> GPT perspective it could go either way. T= hings might get interesting with bigger external volumes, but not for somet= hing I am working/messing with right now.

setup-disk does some= interesting stuff in EFI mode:
- boot has hard-coded 512 (which s= eems quite high?)
- creates a swap partition (2G for me). I would = love to turn that off if I am running inside VirtualBox or being able to ch= oose.

I also wanted to ask if it would make sense to have &quo= t;setup-virtualbox" script that would install virtualbox packages and = tweak some things for VMs
running inside VirtualBox.

= Thank you,

Gennady

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Jakub Jir= utka <jakub@jirutka.cz> wrote:
Wait, VirtualBox *requires* EFI now= ? If not, why to enable it in kernel for VMs?

Jakub

On 30. = Nov 2017, at 15:50, Gennady Feldman <gena01@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Fr= om a quick look looks like:
CONFIG_EFI=3Dy
CONFIG_EFI_STUB=3Dy
are missing from the virthardened config.

Thank you,

On Wed, No= v 29, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Natanael Copa <ncopa@alpinelinux.org> wrote:
Hi,

Thanks you very much for testing.

I think the most critical issues are fixed. I have not bothered fix the
eject issue, since I think it mostly affects virtualbox only.

I haven't looked at the alpine-virt + efi issue, yet. I suppose there are some kernel modules that are needed?

Can you please re-run the tests with the 3.7.0_rc3?

Thanks!

-nc

On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 21:39:02 -0500
Jack Schmidt <alp= ine@mowsey.org> wrote:

> Here are my notes on Alpine 3.7.0 rc1 installations using VirtualBox h= osted on x86_64 Darwin.
>
>
> Summary:
>
> * Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual on BIOS just work (minor issues= )
> * Standard, Extended, Vanilla on EFI has one major issue (bad fsck) > * Virtual is broken on EFI (no kernel support)
>
> In each case I tried to do a base install to an IDE disk, as "sys= ", default options. I also tried booting the ISO as a run-from-ram sys= tem. Virtual on EFI requires a serial console, but otherwise all ISOs run-f= rom-ram smoothly.
>
> The fsck issue needs to be fixed. The 4.9.63 vs 4.9.59 should be fixed= . The Virtual EFI probably should be fixed, but is easily worked-around by = end users. The minor issues would be nice to increase adoption of bootable = alpine, but aren't necessary. I assume docker containers are just fine:= I use edge all the time without trouble.
>
>
> Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual legacy BIOS minor issues:
>
> * Install boot might be too quiet for too long
>
> The BIOS boot takes 5 to 20 seconds, so the "quiet" option i= n boot/syslinux/syslinux.cfg might need to be accompanied by a "say&qu= ot; or a "menu autoboot" type thing. Grub EFI boot is mostly bett= er, but sometimes takes a long time between messages. The installed version= is a little slow, but has a reasonable amount of messages to let you know = it is progressing.
>
>
> Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual both BIOS and EFI minor issues: >
> * After setup-alpine is complete, eject cdrom
> * Install boot and installed root use different kernels, rescue is har= d
> * (hardened/virthardened) Guest additions kernel version problem
>
> Install for BIOS works easily on Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual.= Install for EFI works easily on Standard, Extended, Vanilla, but fails for= Virtual.
>
> After the install, setup-alpine asks to reboot, but doesn't "= eject -s" (-s required for me) the cd. That means alpine reboots under= the readonly cdrom with a tmpfs. This works fine, but is surprising if you= are installing software.
>
> After the eject, system comes up much more noisily / green, so probabl= y reassuring.
>
> However, it comes up under 4.9.59-0-*hardened or 4.9.65 vanilla, so on= e can't use the ISO's 4.9.63 kernel to boot a rescue. If it isn'= ;t too much trouble, for the final 3.7 release, it'd be good if the ker= nel matched on the ISO's boot and the ISO's apk.
>
> Guest additions (mostly not needed by me) are hard to load, since they= are in /lib/modules/4.9.65-* but the kernel is actually 4.9.59-*. Once tha= t is fixed, all good.
>
>
> Standard, Extended, Vanilla EFI issue (vfat.fsck)
>
> * 1.5GB disk required
> * vfat.fsck
>
> Alpine is known for it's very small size. The ISOs are a nice size= . I have a VM that runs off a 10MB iso, and the Virtual ISO is good at unde= r 40MB. I was trying out ubuntu variations and had to choose my physical ne= twork to handle the each-iso-is-a-gig downloads. Alpine is very easy to try= . However, the new EFI install creates a 500MB /boot/efi partition to hold = 500KB of boot data. It might be worthwhile to check the total size of the d= isk, and not use so much on it for smaller (1 or 2 gig) drives.
>
> More importantly /boot/efi fails its fsck due to a syntax error:
>
> fsck.vfat: unrecognized option: C
>
> This is from /etc/init.d/fsck. Since the fsck service fails, most of t= he rest of the boot is not really attempted. / is mounted read-only. Networ= k is down.
>
> Remounting / rw, removing the -C0 from fsck, and rebooting is OK. You = still get a scary error, but the system comes up fine.
>
> See also https://bugs.alpinelinux.org/issues/8090 f= or raspberry pi breakage and suggested fix (seems reasonable to me: write a= simple shell script wrapper for fsck.vfat and fsck.fat that ignores ext2/3= /4 arguments).
>
> I think this must be fixed before a release.
>
>
> Virtual EFI fail
>
> Virtual's virthardened kernel lacks EFI support (even in module fo= rm). Also it is worse on VirtualBox EFI since it also lacks video drivers. = The serial console works, but is hard to use (telnet lacks tab-completion, = GNU screen requires socat, and only one terminal). Since /sys/firmware/efi = is not available, setup-disk does not realize it was an EFI boot and does e= verything wrong.
>
> I suspect it would be a good idea to include EFI support for the Virtu= al ISO / virthardened kernel too. The fix would make Alpine seem more relia= ble and would cut down on the "why is the screen black?" question= s. However, to workaround it is easy to turn off EFI, and legacy BIOS is mo= re standard for virtual machines, I believe.
>
>
>
> ---
> Unsubscribe:=C2=A0 alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelin= ux.org
> Help:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0alpine-devel+help@lists.alp= inelinux.org
> ---
>



---
Unsubscribe:=C2=A0 alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.or= g
Help:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0alpine-devel+help@lists.alpineli= nux.org
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-- Kiyoshi Aman
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