X-Original-To: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org Received: from mail-wm0-f49.google.com (mail-wm0-f49.google.com [74.125.82.49]) by lists.alpinelinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685E65C4D20 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 00:16:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail-wm0-f49.google.com with SMTP id k4so5026164wmc.1 for ; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 17:16:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=dpWSSWdIikEtGFDkP68B+1XyzMgbgBpPF0jo3r5YV0I=; b=C2Uq1Kyj71ezfhHNsYDl8UKmiLsWEYsKrd7CLMXn8uRqf6JTbzLR+x7LFqhhpgKCx2 9wfN2Di4shI8McUjk9tobG8PpP2DG07snrbkNHdf8M4ZtZiD5zFIBy7Yk46+ojbblHoC upLywbuAUwy3JhTjBaCWtvklKWXZn6q+5dDLJM9JkwlJen9yvexgdhCzXUtObg2xT37e wGRemfe6atDm6cW8mZ8XanGnZQfOhNz+UTFuDUzRQ9FswZB94XO8kokOKm2JIzgw5rUL v1sV/JKgRrL7UjRMplxsoRKtzOyyriEUonPSn010pJq13GMle0ZyA/FLpsh5MNjvR9Ip rt2g== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWwmrHd9bqK+TsDlSKAFk7fmN3BdUOJGItIbnK8zfEPbSrd58Iv bmb8cbCnTXG0spUxcFNl19zVSTwXXhNfMrWfeSgl3Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAGm0+AroqgUkPOF7SJApqJr7AKJnxixHJMN5yrGQCsIiUZ4gP9Wt6jS3vYFTPosuJaTk9/kGjwb/h7pDEpAtI= X-Received: by 10.28.217.136 with SMTP id q130mr158166wmg.89.1507249016573; Thu, 05 Oct 2017 17:16:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailinglist: alpine-devel Precedence: list List-Id: Alpine Development List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <59D6AE12.2040400@adelielinux.org> In-Reply-To: From: Kiyoshi Aman Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 00:16:46 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] [DRAFT] Alpine Linux Code of Conduct To: Jakub Jirutka , Alpine-devel Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114695fc3891ac055ad5c220" --001a114695fc3891ac055ad5c220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Oh, maybe also explicitly call out discrimination based on political views, favourite brand of a beer, tabs/spaces preference, relation to Star Wars and Star Trek, =E2=80=A6, and gazillion of other things some people ma= y feel uncomfortable hearing an opposite opinion=E2=80=A6 Don=E2=80=99t you see ho= w insane is this? I think this is an inappropriate way to express dissatisfaction with the proposed change, and I feel that it goes against the spirit of camaraderie that should be expected on Alpine communication platforms. I will address it anyhow, however: A CoC doesn't, and shouldn't need to, cover every conceivable way in which an individual can be hostile to others. The original mention of init system preference was probably intended to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, which in my opinion is perfectly fine. Specifically including programming languages is a bit much, I think, but I am neutral on including it. I think other parts of the CoC handle hostility towards others just fine, though. On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 6:47 PM Jakub Jirutka wrote: > > Not sure if you want to explicitly call out discrimination based on > programming language preference in the explicitly disallowed conduct > section as well. It=E2=80=99s sometimes scary to be a Python developer i= n > #alpine-devel, and I really feel for the Go programmers as well. > > > Oh, maybe also explicitly call out discrimination based on political > views, favourite brand of a beer, tabs/spaces preference, relation to Sta= r > Wars and Star Trek, =E2=80=A6, and gazillion of other things some people = may feel > uncomfortable hearing an opposite opinion=E2=80=A6 Don=E2=80=99t you see = how insane is this? > > Maybe I should also advocate for adding explicit disapproval of public > accusation without any real evidence=E2=80=A6 > > Jakub > > > On 6. Oct 2017, at 0:11, A. Wilcox wrote: > > > > Signed PGP part > > On 05/10/17 03:14, William Pitcock wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > As I have mentioned before, I have been working on a proposed Code > > > of Conduct, in the spirit of previous proposals. > > > > > > This is the first public proposed draft for the Code of Conduct. > > > If there is consensus, it will be implemented shortly after the > > > 3.7 release occurs. Breaches of the Code of Conduct requiring > > > third-party mediation will be handled by a not-yet-created team. > > > An actual proposal putting the Code of Conduct into force and > > > creating a moderation team to handle issues surrounding it will be > > > put forward after the 3.7 release is published. > > > > > > One small idea: the moderation team should probably be held to a more > > strict code of conduct than the rest of the project, since they are - > > by design - the people who are going to be dealing with CoC violations. > > > > It doesn't have to be anything major, but for example, they should > > probably try to stay out of arguments even on -offtopic channels so > > that all members of the community feel they are neutral. Otherwise, > > you run the risk of people "gaming the system" by choosing moderators > > that will side with them (or against the other party) based on > > offtopic spill over... seen that happen before, guess where ;) > > > > > > > In effect, the goal of this Code of Conduct was to take parts of > > > the previous Alpine Code of Conduct proposals and merge them with > > > other Codes of Conduct observed in the larger Alpine ecosystem > > > (Docker, Adelie, et al). > > > > > > It is hoped that this Code of Conduct will contribute towards a > > > more inclusive, friendly and diverse Alpine community. As such, I > > > would appreciate any feedback and suggestions to improve it. > > > > > > A rendered version of the Code of Conduct is available at: > > > https://gist.github.com/kaniini/d27feb68f4dfc771bfc746de8d816838 > > > > > > The plaintext draft Code of Conduct follows: > > > > [snip] > > > > > > +1 looks good. > > > > Not sure if you want to explicitly call out discrimination based on > > programming language preference in the explicitly disallowed conduct > > section as well. It's sometimes scary to be a Python developer in > > #alpine-devel, and I really feel for the Go programmers as well. > > > > All the best, > > --arw > > > > > > -- > > A. Wilcox (awilfox) > > Project Lead, Ad=C3=A9lie Linux > > http://adelielinux.org > > > > > > > > --- > > Unsubscribe: alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org > > Help: alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org > > --- > > > > > > --- > Unsubscribe: alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org > Help: alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org > --- > > -- -- Kiyoshi Aman --001a114695fc3891ac055ad5c220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>=C2=A0Oh, maybe al= so explicitly call out discrimination based on political views, favourite b= rand of a beer, tabs/spaces preference, relation to Star Wars and Star Trek= , =E2=80=A6, and gazillion of other things some people may feel uncomfortab= le hearing an opposite opinion=E2=80=A6 Don=E2=80=99t you see how insane is= this?

I think this is an inappropriate way t= o express dissatisfaction with the proposed change, and I feel that it goes= against the spirit of camaraderie that should be expected on Alpine commun= ication platforms.=C2=A0 I will address it anyhow, however:

A CoC doesn't, and shouldn't need to, cover ev= ery conceivable way in which an individual can be hostile to others.=C2=A0 = The original mention of init system preference was probably intended to be = somewhat tongue-in-cheek, which in my opinion is perfectly fine.=C2=A0 Spec= ifically including programming languages is a bit much, I think, but I am n= eutral on including it.=C2=A0 I think other parts of the CoC handle hostili= ty towards others just fine, though.



On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 6:47 PM Jakub Jirutka <= jakub@jirutka.cz> wrote:
> Not sure if you want to explicitly ca= ll out discrimination based on programming language preference in the expli= citly disallowed conduct section as well.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s sometimes scar= y to be a Python developer in #alpine-devel, and I really feel for the Go p= rogrammers as well.


Oh, maybe also explicitly call out discrimination based on political views,= favourite brand of a beer, tabs/spaces preference, relation to Star Wars a= nd Star Trek, =E2=80=A6, and gazillion of other things some people may feel= uncomfortable hearing an opposite opinion=E2=80=A6 Don=E2=80=99t you see h= ow insane is this?

Maybe I should also advocate for adding explicit disapproval of public accu= sation without any real evidence=E2=80=A6

Jakub

> On 6. Oct 2017, at 0:11, A. Wilcox <awilfox@adelielinux.org> wrote:
>
> Signed PGP part
> On 05/10/17 03:14, William Pitcock wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > As I have mentioned before, I have been working on a proposed Cod= e
> > of Conduct, in the spirit of previous proposals.
> >
> > This is the first public proposed draft for the Code of Conduct.<= br> > > If there is consensus, it will be implemented shortly after the > > 3.7 release occurs.=C2=A0 Breaches of the Code of Conduct requiri= ng
> > third-party mediation will be handled by a not-yet-created team.<= br> > > An actual proposal putting the Code of Conduct into force and
> > creating a moderation team to handle issues surrounding it will b= e
> > put forward after the 3.7 release is published.
>
>
> One small idea: the moderation team should probably be held to a more<= br> > strict code of conduct than the rest of the project, since they are -<= br> > by design - the people who are going to be dealing with CoC violations= .
>
> It doesn't have to be anything major, but for example, they should=
> probably try to stay out of arguments even on -offtopic channels so > that all members of the community feel they are neutral.=C2=A0 Otherwi= se,
> you run the risk of people "gaming the system" by choosing m= oderators
> that will side with them (or against the other party) based on
> offtopic spill over... seen that happen before, guess where ;)
>
>
> > In effect, the goal of this Code of Conduct was to take parts of<= br> > > the previous Alpine Code of Conduct proposals and merge them with=
> > other Codes of Conduct observed in the larger Alpine ecosystem > > (Docker, Adelie, et al).
> >
> > It is hoped that this Code of Conduct will contribute towards a > > more inclusive, friendly and diverse Alpine community.=C2=A0 As s= uch, I
> > would appreciate any feedback and suggestions to improve it.
> >
> > A rendered version of the Code of Conduct is available at:
> > https://gist.github.com/ka= niini/d27feb68f4dfc771bfc746de8d816838
> >
> > The plaintext draft Code of Conduct follows:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> +1 looks good.
>
> Not sure if you want to explicitly call out discrimination based on > programming language preference in the explicitly disallowed conduct > section as well.=C2=A0 It's sometimes scary to be a Python develop= er in
> #alpine-devel, and I really feel for the Go programmers as well.
>
> All the best,
> --arw
>
>
> --
> A. Wilcox (awilfox)
> Project Lead, Ad=C3=A9lie Linux
> http://adelielinux.org
>
>
>
> ---
> Unsubscribe:=C2=A0 alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelin= ux.org
> Help:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0alpine-devel+help@lists.alp= inelinux.org
> ---
>



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-- Kiyoshi Aman
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