X-Original-To: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org Received: from luna.geeknet.cz (luna.geeknet.cz [37.205.9.141]) by lists.alpinelinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1665C4583 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2016 15:12:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by luna.geeknet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DCF6054BF3 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:12:33 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jirutka.cz; s=mail; t=1467558753; bh=y6nbOGDl22zKpewHWb/AVbMRDGt2wvjZdVBNmeMCRQ8=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To; b=bu6vMbhhjAxo6oHPTLeS3+TdW7b7WG7Rz5OJATkxzLP5h+3G3V9WdjY1F44Y2x5Ak FIcGMo24XDokRi8ovH1vTOSRnFROqoq/iqOTU0WdtuD+Dm+YvyYrHGnFrV/Jz9mXzR U4EqwC6+RVHfqbOpmCatWikL7Jc7VxRNeTdC6KHY= From: Jakub Jirutka Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_32F95EFF-93DA-4539-946A-B1DDCC0FF6C6"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Message-Id: X-Mailinglist: alpine-devel Precedence: list List-Id: Alpine Development List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] smdev Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:12:32 +0200 References: <174bbc5214754cfa31d9156ec1e78660@riseup.net> <20160703145233.5845075.93120.404@riseup.net> <9AD95974-D6F1-40B1-B3CA-8AA46FE9512B@shiz.me> To: Alpine Devel List In-Reply-To: <9AD95974-D6F1-40B1-B3CA-8AA46FE9512B@shiz.me> --Apple-Mail=_32F95EFF-93DA-4539-946A-B1DDCC0FF6C6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> I was talking about foreseeable future, like sbase/ubase were already = adopted. Well, but you didn=E2=80=99t write it, this is quite important = circumstance. ;) >> The average user also doesn't use Alpine, isn't it for "power = users"?=E2=80=8E [0] (Un)fortunately (polarity depends on PoV) this isn=E2=80=99t true = anymore, since Docker started using Alpine for their images. Docker = users usually aren=E2=80=99t =E2=80=9Cpower users.=E2=80=9D They often = don=E2=80=99t even understand what is libc and that Oracle JDK, that is = distributed just as a strange BLOB compiled against glibc, really = can=E2=80=99t work on Alpine (I=E2=80=99m not kidding, this is really = very common issue). >> All I can say is to compare the code. I=E2=80=99ve never used mdev = before and am not aware of all its features. Okay, so we don=E2=80=99t even know what will not work on smdev, because = there isn=E2=80=99t even proper documentation=E2=80=A6 I still see more = drawbacks than advantages. >> I also don=E2=80=99t think that smdev should be provided by the = package manager. (just like the base system) The base system actually *is* provided by package manager. Everything in = Alpine is provided as a package (aport). You can easily install fully = functional base Alpine system in chroot just using `apk.static install = alpine-base` in ~2 seconds (see [1], [2], or [3] for example; apk.static = is a statically linked binary). BTW, this is really awesome. >> Why would you remove it, and if you need, go to /usr/src and make = uninstall. Once again, Alpine is not Linux =46rom Scratch=E2=80=A6 Jakub [1]: https://github.com/jirutka/aports/blob/edge/.travis/install-alpine [2]: = https://github.com/alpinelinux/aports/blob/master/.travis/install-alpine [3]: https://github.com/lxc/lxc/blob/master/templates/lxc-alpine.in On 3. Jul 2016, at 17:04, Shiz wrote: >=20 >> On 03 Jul 2016, at 16:52, C=C3=A1g wrote: >>=20 >>> The average user doesn't know what's mdev/smdev/etc and won't need = to >>> change the Alpine sane defaults. That's how I see it... >>=20 >> The average user also doesn't use Alpine, isn't it for "power = users"?=E2=80=8E [0] >=20 > That should be no reason to make things annoying on purpose. >=20 >> I also don't think that smdev should be provided by the package = manager. >> (just like the base system) >> Why would you remove it, and if you need, go to /usr/src and make = uninstall. >> Luckily, suckless has always provided uninstall rule for all its = software. >=20 > I frequently keep a fully static /dev on my servers, in which I = don=E2=80=99t need > a device manager at all. So yes, I=E2=80=99d like to remove it. >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t think a distro with a package manager is right for you = judging from > this comment. Maybe something like BSD=E2=80=99s ports is more up your = ally? >=20 > - Shiz >=20 > --- > Unsubscribe: alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org > Help: alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org > --- >=20 --Apple-Mail=_32F95EFF-93DA-4539-946A-B1DDCC0FF6C6 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIL1zCCBeIw ggPKoAMCAQICEGunin0K14jWUQr5WeTntOEwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwx FjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmlj YXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxKTAnBgNVBAMTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4X DTE1MTIxNjAxMDAwNVoXDTMwMTIxNjAxMDAwNVowdTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0 YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKTAnBgNVBAsTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MSMw IQYDVQQDExpTdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIENsaWVudCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEP 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