X-Original-To: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org Received: from luna.geeknet.cz (luna.geeknet.cz [37.205.9.141]) by lists.alpinelinux.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 076235C5731 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:44:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by luna.geeknet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0D66BA58E8; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:44:19 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jirutka.cz; s=mail; t=1512146659; bh=rDoAKvlRHp2mbkVlA/ipjdvsdq2TZXoI+3ZSd8MdhwQ=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=iJUlZshdw/6LrroRH6kkcBwALxkE4UY037Y6qu5GVBZO5XG9hh5yVby/ZBXe7tjD9 A1pLe2mOKPYYMILM4EX17sAtXsg+eblhr5ohUlYSnIvG14grJxrpPPjO4bCBYZbppj b6w1SI1HqfHCDfxhOUzsridtRIdmTr9eu70pdP3U= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FD477FAC-5C65-4E9D-9BA1-A742F16B2848" X-Mailinglist: alpine-devel Precedence: list List-Id: Alpine Development List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] Alpine Linux 3.7.0 Release Candidate 1 on VirtualBox From: Jakub Jirutka In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:44:18 +0100 Cc: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org Message-Id: References: <20171123224046.0d21352b@ncopa-desktop.copa.dup.pw> <5A19D088.6040806@adelielinux.org> <39316FB2-BAB3-4357-82FC-32FB65EF5AB8@mowsey.org> <20171129181404.4df7941b@ncopa-desktop.copa.dup.pw> <5B02BCE4-04A7-4389-A7F3-BD44477A9C6D@jirutka.cz> To: Gennady Feldman --Apple-Mail=_FD477FAC-5C65-4E9D-9BA1-A742F16B2848 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Gennady, > Any reason you are against enabling it? I=E2=80=99m not strongly against it, I just prefer to keep number of = enabled features at minimum (and yes, I know that the current configs = are exactly opposite). I don=E2=80=99t see any added value of EFI for = VMs. Actually I can hardly see it even for physical HW, it just allowed = vendors to add more crap and bloat into it, but that=E2=80=99s a = different story. It other devs don=E2=80=99t mind adding these features, let=E2=80=99s do = it. Jakub > On 1. Dec 2017, at 16:10, Gennady Feldman wrote: >=20 > Hi Jakub, >=20 > Was thinking a bit more about virt + EFI.. Any reason you are against = enabling it? It looks like various VM platforms have already added or = are adding EFI support to replace "legacy BIOS" as part of the VM = environment. >=20 > Right now that kernel doesn't boot and from the looks of it it's only = enabling 2 modules. >=20 > P.S. Can somebody bump community/virtualbox-guest-additions/APKBUILD = 5.1.26 =3D> 5.1.30? >=20 > Thank you, >=20 > Gennady >=20 > On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Gennady Feldman > wrote: > HI Jakub, >=20 > I am going to answer what I know ( I am sure others will have their = own reasons). I have Virtualbox 5.1.30 (there's also 5.2.x out) = installed on Windows 7.=20 > Right now from what I can see it's NOT a requirement, but the option = is there.=20 >=20 > I did download and try to play a bit with the 3.7rc3 both virt and = standard. Virt doesn't even boot. Standard seems to be fine as long as I = don't install the virt kernel and try to boot with it. >=20 > =46rom what I read EFI seems like the replacement for BIOS and should = provide a number of benefits including a better/bigger console (which I = like quite a bit, kinda hate doing console installs > using legacy BIOS inside VirtualBox) and faster boot time among other = things. I might even convert my Alpine VMs to use it once virt kernel = supports it. >=20 > I guess from MBR <=3D> GPT perspective it could go either way. Things = might get interesting with bigger external volumes, but not for = something I am working/messing with right now. >=20 > setup-disk does some interesting stuff in EFI mode: > - boot has hard-coded 512 (which seems quite high?) > - creates a swap partition (2G for me). I would love to turn that off = if I am running inside VirtualBox or being able to choose. >=20 > I also wanted to ask if it would make sense to have "setup-virtualbox" = script that would install virtualbox packages and tweak some things for = VMs > running inside VirtualBox. >=20 > Thank you, >=20 > Gennady >=20 > On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Jakub Jirutka > wrote: > Wait, VirtualBox *requires* EFI now? If not, why to enable it in = kernel for VMs? >=20 > Jakub >=20 >> On 30. Nov 2017, at 15:50, Gennady Feldman > wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> =46rom a quick look looks like: >> CONFIG_EFI=3Dy >> CONFIG_EFI_STUB=3Dy >>=20 >> are missing from the virthardened config. >>=20 >> Thank you, >>=20 >> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Natanael Copa = > wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> Thanks you very much for testing. >>=20 >> I think the most critical issues are fixed. I have not bothered fix = the >> eject issue, since I think it mostly affects virtualbox only. >>=20 >> I haven't looked at the alpine-virt + efi issue, yet. I suppose there >> are some kernel modules that are needed? >>=20 >> Can you please re-run the tests with the 3.7.0_rc3? >>=20 >> Thanks! >>=20 >> -nc >>=20 >> On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 21:39:02 -0500 >> Jack Schmidt > wrote: >>=20 >> > Here are my notes on Alpine 3.7.0 rc1 installations using = VirtualBox hosted on x86_64 Darwin. >> > >> > >> > Summary: >> > >> > * Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual on BIOS just work (minor = issues) >> > * Standard, Extended, Vanilla on EFI has one major issue (bad fsck) >> > * Virtual is broken on EFI (no kernel support) >> > >> > In each case I tried to do a base install to an IDE disk, as "sys", = default options. I also tried booting the ISO as a run-from-ram system. = Virtual on EFI requires a serial console, but otherwise all ISOs = run-from-ram smoothly. >> > >> > The fsck issue needs to be fixed. The 4.9.63 vs 4.9.59 should be = fixed. The Virtual EFI probably should be fixed, but is easily = worked-around by end users. The minor issues would be nice to increase = adoption of bootable alpine, but aren't necessary. I assume docker = containers are just fine: I use edge all the time without trouble. >> > >> > >> > Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual legacy BIOS minor issues: >> > >> > * Install boot might be too quiet for too long >> > >> > The BIOS boot takes 5 to 20 seconds, so the "quiet" option in = boot/syslinux/syslinux.cfg might need to be accompanied by a "say" or a = "menu autoboot" type thing. Grub EFI boot is mostly better, but = sometimes takes a long time between messages. The installed version is a = little slow, but has a reasonable amount of messages to let you know it = is progressing. >> > >> > >> > Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual both BIOS and EFI minor = issues: >> > >> > * After setup-alpine is complete, eject cdrom >> > * Install boot and installed root use different kernels, rescue is = hard >> > * (hardened/virthardened) Guest additions kernel version problem >> > >> > Install for BIOS works easily on Standard, Extended, Vanilla, = Virtual. Install for EFI works easily on Standard, Extended, Vanilla, = but fails for Virtual. >> > >> > After the install, setup-alpine asks to reboot, but doesn't "eject = -s" (-s required for me) the cd. That means alpine reboots under the = readonly cdrom with a tmpfs. This works fine, but is surprising if you = are installing software. >> > >> > After the eject, system comes up much more noisily / green, so = probably reassuring. >> > >> > However, it comes up under 4.9.59-0-*hardened or 4.9.65 vanilla, so = one can't use the ISO's 4.9.63 kernel to boot a rescue. If it isn't too = much trouble, for the final 3.7 release, it'd be good if the kernel = matched on the ISO's boot and the ISO's apk. >> > >> > Guest additions (mostly not needed by me) are hard to load, since = they are in /lib/modules/4.9.65-* but the kernel is actually 4.9.59-*. = Once that is fixed, all good. >> > >> > >> > Standard, Extended, Vanilla EFI issue (vfat.fsck) >> > >> > * 1.5GB disk required >> > * vfat.fsck >> > >> > Alpine is known for it's very small size. The ISOs are a nice size. = I have a VM that runs off a 10MB iso, and the Virtual ISO is good at = under 40MB. I was trying out ubuntu variations and had to choose my = physical network to handle the each-iso-is-a-gig downloads. Alpine is = very easy to try. However, the new EFI install creates a 500MB /boot/efi = partition to hold 500KB of boot data. It might be worthwhile to check = the total size of the disk, and not use so much on it for smaller (1 or = 2 gig) drives. >> > >> > More importantly /boot/efi fails its fsck due to a syntax error: >> > >> > fsck.vfat: unrecognized option: C >> > >> > This is from /etc/init.d/fsck. Since the fsck service fails, most = of the rest of the boot is not really attempted. / is mounted read-only. = Network is down. >> > >> > Remounting / rw, removing the -C0 from fsck, and rebooting is OK. = You still get a scary error, but the system comes up fine. >> > >> > See also https://bugs.alpinelinux.org/issues/8090 = for raspberry pi breakage and = suggested fix (seems reasonable to me: write a simple shell script = wrapper for fsck.vfat and fsck.fat that ignores ext2/3/4 arguments). >> > >> > I think this must be fixed before a release. >> > >> > >> > Virtual EFI fail >> > >> > Virtual's virthardened kernel lacks EFI support (even in module = form). Also it is worse on VirtualBox EFI since it also lacks video = drivers. The serial console works, but is hard to use (telnet lacks = tab-completion, GNU screen requires socat, and only one terminal). Since = /sys/firmware/efi is not available, setup-disk does not realize it was = an EFI boot and does everything wrong. >> > >> > I suspect it would be a good idea to include EFI support for the = Virtual ISO / virthardened kernel too. The fix would make Alpine seem = more reliable and would cut down on the "why is the screen black?" = questions. However, to workaround it is easy to turn off EFI, and legacy = BIOS is more standard for virtual machines, I believe. >> > >> > >> > >> > --- >> > Unsubscribe: alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org = >> > Help: alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org = >> > --- >> > >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --- >> Unsubscribe: alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org = >> Help: alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org = >> --- >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_FD477FAC-5C65-4E9D-9BA1-A742F16B2848 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Gennady,

Any reason you are against = enabling it?

I=E2=80=99m not strongly = against it, I just prefer to keep number of enabled features at minimum = (and yes, I know that the current configs are exactly opposite). I = don=E2=80=99t see any added value of EFI for VMs. Actually I can hardly = see it even for physical HW, it just allowed vendors to add more crap = and bloat into it, but that=E2=80=99s a different story.

It other devs don=E2=80=99= t mind adding these features, let=E2=80=99s do it.

Jakub

On 1. Dec 2017, at 16:10, Gennady Feldman <gena01@gmail.com> = wrote:

Hi Jakub,

Was thinking a bit more about virt + EFI.. Any reason = you are against enabling it? It looks like various VM platforms have = already added or are adding EFI support to replace "legacy BIOS" as part = of the VM environment.

Right now that = kernel doesn't boot and from the looks of it it's only enabling 2 = modules.

P.S. Can somebody bump = community/virtualbox-guest-additions/APKBUILD 5.1.26 =3D> 5.1.30?

Thank you,

Gennady

On Thu, = Nov 30, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Gennady Feldman <gena01@gmail.com> wrote:
HI Jakub,

I am going to = answer what I know ( I am sure others will have their own reasons). I = have Virtualbox 5.1.30 (there's also 5.2.x out) installed on Windows 7. =
Right now from what I can see it's NOT a requirement, but = the option is there.

I did download = and try to play a bit with the 3.7rc3 both virt and standard. Virt = doesn't even boot. Standard seems to be fine as long as I don't install = the virt kernel and try to boot with it.

=46rom what I read EFI seems like the replacement for = BIOS and should provide a number of benefits including a better/bigger = console (which I like quite a bit, kinda hate doing console installs
using legacy BIOS inside VirtualBox) and faster boot = time among other things. I might even convert my Alpine VMs to use it = once virt kernel supports it.

I guess = from MBR <=3D> GPT perspective it could go either way. Things = might get interesting with bigger external volumes, but not for = something I am working/messing with right now.

setup-disk does some interesting stuff in EFI mode:
- boot has hard-coded 512 (which seems quite high?)
- creates a swap partition (2G for me). I would love to = turn that off if I am running inside VirtualBox or being able to = choose.

I also wanted to ask if it = would make sense to have "setup-virtualbox" script that would install = virtualbox packages and tweak some things for VMs
running inside VirtualBox.

Thank you,

Gennady

On Thu, = Nov 30, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Jakub Jirutka <jakub@jirutka.cz> wrote:
Wait, VirtualBox *requires* = EFI now? If not, why to enable it in kernel for VMs?

Jakub

On 30. = Nov 2017, at 15:50, Gennady Feldman <gena01@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

=46rom a quick look looks like:
CONFIG_EFI=3DyCONFIG_EFI_STUB=3Dy

are = missing from the virthardened config.

Thank you,

On Wed, = Nov 29, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Natanael Copa <ncopa@alpinelinux.org> wrote:
Hi,

Thanks you very much for testing.

I think the most critical issues are fixed. I have not bothered fix = the
eject issue, since I think it mostly affects virtualbox only.

I haven't looked at the alpine-virt + efi issue, yet. I suppose there
are some kernel modules that are needed?

Can you please re-run the tests with the 3.7.0_rc3?

Thanks!

-nc

On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 21:39:02 -0500
Jack Schmidt <alpine@mowsey.org> wrote:

> Here are my notes on Alpine 3.7.0 rc1 installations using = VirtualBox hosted on x86_64 Darwin.
>
>
> Summary:
>
> * Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual on BIOS just work (minor = issues)
> * Standard, Extended, Vanilla on EFI has one major issue (bad = fsck)
> * Virtual is broken on EFI (no kernel support)
>
> In each case I tried to do a base install to an IDE disk, as "sys", = default options. I also tried booting the ISO as a run-from-ram system. = Virtual on EFI requires a serial console, but otherwise all ISOs = run-from-ram smoothly.
>
> The fsck issue needs to be fixed. The 4.9.63 vs 4.9.59 should be = fixed. The Virtual EFI probably should be fixed, but is easily = worked-around by end users. The minor issues would be nice to increase = adoption of bootable alpine, but aren't necessary. I assume docker = containers are just fine: I use edge all the time without trouble.
>
>
> Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual legacy BIOS minor issues:
>
> * Install boot might be too quiet for too long
>
> The BIOS boot takes 5 to 20 seconds, so the "quiet" option in = boot/syslinux/syslinux.cfg might need to be accompanied by a "say" or a = "menu autoboot" type thing. Grub EFI boot is mostly better, but = sometimes takes a long time between messages. The installed version is a = little slow, but has a reasonable amount of messages to let you know it = is progressing.
>
>
> Standard, Extended, Vanilla, Virtual both BIOS and EFI minor = issues:
>
> * After setup-alpine is complete, eject cdrom
> * Install boot and installed root use different kernels, rescue is = hard
> * (hardened/virthardened) Guest additions kernel version problem
>
> Install for BIOS works easily on Standard, Extended, Vanilla, = Virtual. Install for EFI works easily on Standard, Extended, Vanilla, = but fails for Virtual.
>
> After the install, setup-alpine asks to reboot, but doesn't "eject = -s" (-s required for me) the cd. That means alpine reboots under the = readonly cdrom with a tmpfs. This works fine, but is surprising if you = are installing software.
>
> After the eject, system comes up much more noisily / green, so = probably reassuring.
>
> However, it comes up under 4.9.59-0-*hardened or 4.9.65 vanilla, so = one can't use the ISO's 4.9.63 kernel to boot a rescue. If it isn't too = much trouble, for the final 3.7 release, it'd be good if the kernel = matched on the ISO's boot and the ISO's apk.
>
> Guest additions (mostly not needed by me) are hard to load, since = they are in /lib/modules/4.9.65-* but the kernel is actually 4.9.59-*. = Once that is fixed, all good.
>
>
> Standard, Extended, Vanilla EFI issue (vfat.fsck)
>
> * 1.5GB disk required
> * vfat.fsck
>
> Alpine is known for it's very small size. The ISOs are a nice size. = I have a VM that runs off a 10MB iso, and the Virtual ISO is good at = under 40MB. I was trying out ubuntu variations and had to choose my = physical network to handle the each-iso-is-a-gig downloads. Alpine is = very easy to try. However, the new EFI install creates a 500MB /boot/efi = partition to hold 500KB of boot data. It might be worthwhile to check = the total size of the disk, and not use so much on it for smaller (1 or = 2 gig) drives.
>
> More importantly /boot/efi fails its fsck due to a syntax error:
>
> fsck.vfat: unrecognized option: C
>
> This is from /etc/init.d/fsck. Since the fsck service fails, most = of the rest of the boot is not really attempted. / is mounted read-only. = Network is down.
>
> Remounting / rw, removing the -C0 from fsck, and rebooting is OK. = You still get a scary error, but the system comes up fine.
>
> See also https://bugs.alpinelinux.org/issues/8090 = for raspberry pi breakage and suggested fix (seems reasonable to me: = write a simple shell script wrapper for fsck.vfat and fsck.fat that = ignores ext2/3/4 arguments).
>
> I think this must be fixed before a release.
>
>
> Virtual EFI fail
>
> Virtual's virthardened kernel lacks EFI support (even in module = form). Also it is worse on VirtualBox EFI since it also lacks video = drivers. The serial console works, but is hard to use (telnet lacks = tab-completion, GNU screen requires socat, and only one terminal). Since = /sys/firmware/efi is not available, setup-disk does not realize it was = an EFI boot and does everything wrong.
>
> I suspect it would be a good idea to include EFI support for the = Virtual ISO / virthardened kernel too. The fix would make Alpine seem = more reliable and would cut down on the "why is the screen black?" = questions. However, to workaround it is easy to turn off EFI, and legacy = BIOS is more standard for virtual machines, I believe.
>
>
>
> ---
> Unsubscribe:  alpine-devel+unsubscribe@lists.alpinelinux.org
> Help:         alpine-devel+help@lists.alpinelinux.org
> ---
>



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