Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] KDE Plasma packaging in Alpine
To: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org
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From: Oliver Smith <ollieparanoid@bitmessage.ch>
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Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2017 11:10:00 +0000
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From: Oliver Smith <ollieparanoid@bitmessage.ch>
To: alpine-devel@lists.alpinelinux.org
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Subject: Re: [alpine-devel] KDE Plasma packaging in Alpine
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Hi there,

I am sorry that awilfox and kaniini had to explain themselves in lengthy =
posts. I didn't understand the polite pointers you were already giving, w=
hich pointed in the direction that the LTS version is suited better for A=
lpine.

But with all the facts on the table, it is obvious now, that Adelie's tea=
m are the experts for getting KDE into Alpine, way beyond what we could h=
ave learned about both KDE and Alpine in such a short time. There's no do=
ubt that the LTS version is the better choice.

awilfox wrote:
> (Honestly, I have wondered for a while why postmarketOS does not want
> to try and fork Ad=E9lie instead of Alpine.  Since KF5 is ABI stable, w=
e
> are always tracking the current version of that anyway.  They would
> only need to worry about Plasma Next.  This would lower their expended
> effort so that they could focus on what makes them different.  It
> would also greatly reduce the amount of code with which they need to
> become familiar.)

We're not forking any distribution, we want to be an (ideally thin) layer=
 on top and directly use and contribute to the binary packages provided b=
y upstream. To be honest, I didn't know about the ABI stability yet. Basi=
ng on Adelie's KF5 packaging does sounds like a good idea and I'll bring =
it up in the postmarketOS community.

Thanks for all the answers to this thread, I have read them all multiple =
times and learned a lot!

Best regards,
Oliver


A. Wilcox:
> On 27/10/17 11:01, Natanael Copa wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 14:03:05 +0200 Jakub Jirutka <jakub@jirutka.cz>
>> wrote:
>>> In the light of these arguments, I changed my mind * I*d prefer
>>> LTS version of KDE to non-LTS. Also I support adding KDE packages
>>> to Alpine, if Awilfox will help us maintaining them in
>>> long-term.
>=20
>> I prefer LTS too if possible.
>=20
>> We could maybe have the next version of KDE in edge/testing?
>> similar to what we do with firefox and firefox-esr?
>=20
>=20
> I'm not sure what you mean by that, but edge/testing is definitely
> where I would want KDE to land until it is known to work well on Alpine=
=2E
>=20
>=20
>> Needs be done carefully though. We did have some confusion with
>> php7 in community and testing.
>=20
>>>> The entire team at Ad=E9lie are dead serious about making sure
>>>> that our packages are rock solid on varied hardware.
>>>>
>>>> The reason that we have not already upstreamed our KDE work is
>>>> that we are still ensuring that it works *everywhere*.  We have
>>>> a few people volunteering to try it out on ARM, and I*m trying
>>>> to bring up PPC64.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that this is good enough for adding them to the Alpine*s=20
>>> testing repository right after releasing v3.7 (so we can now
>>> focus on release).
>=20
>> I agree that we should focus on the v3.7 release now.
>=20
>> A. Wilcox: What is the current state of 5.8? Do you think it is=20
>> realistic to merge it now and have it working without delaying the
>> v3.7 release too much?
>=20
>=20
> The frameworks are ready.  They're ABI stable and they work flawlessly
> on musl.  I have no doubt that they would be fine in v3.7.  However,
> that doesn't include the Plasma desktop, just the frameworks... which
> may not be very useful without the desktop itself.  See below.
>=20
>=20
>> Are you ok to wait til after Alpine 3.7 release and aim for KDE
>> 5.12 in Alpine v3.8?
>=20
>=20
> My main concern is that we still don't have any display manager
> capable of launching a KDE session.  So you would need to have
> .xinitrc with:
>=20
> exec ck-launch-session dbus-launch --exit-with-session startkde
>=20
> This doesn't seem like a very nice way to do things.  I highly doubt
> I'll be able to get sddm to work with ConsoleKit2 before v3.7 is done
> and released.  After one week of work I have it communicating with CK2
> but not yet creating sessions or reading the seats properly.
>=20
> I can't really speak for 5.12 yet.  We of course feel confident that
> it will be a great release, and they have integrated a lot of our work
> upstream for it.  However, there's always the chance for some breakage
> as there is with any package release.
>=20
> I don't know when Alpine 3.8 would be shipping and I don't know when a
> version freeze would happen and so on.  There's not a lot of
> information that I can find that talks about Alpine's release
> schedule.  It looks like, based on past releases, the next one would
> be in May 2018?  If that is the case KDE 5.12 should be very ready by
> then.
>=20
> FWIW, at the current rate of progress, Ad=E9lie 1.0 is probably due for=

> a release around January 2018.  We plan to bump to kernel 4.14 and KDE
> 5.12 and then release Ad=E9lie 1.5 somewhere in the summer.  That looks=

> like it would line up pretty cleanly to being based on Alpine 3.8.
>=20
> No guarantees, obviously, but assuming everything I have said in this
> message turns out to happen, we would probably be looking at
> upstreaming KDE Plasma 5.12 in to Alpine some time in February.
>=20
> As I said, I am willing to work on KDE Frameworks (KF5) integration
> now but I don't know how useful those would be without something using
> them.
>=20
>=20
> All the best,
> --arw
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
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>=20
>=20


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