Hi folks,
I was wondering about the packages linux-lts (main) and linux-edge
(community). LTS suggests some kind of Long Term Support, the "more stable
version" of the Linux kernel. But I noticed that both versions are
basically the same, and have been for some time, according to their commit
histories[0]: linux-lts was bumped to 6.1.8 on Jan 24, linux-edge on the
same day.
So, my first question is: what's the rationale behind these packages?
Looking at kernel.org, v6.1.8 *is* actually the current stable version.
But what should -edge be? Maybe current mainline, i.e. the -rc versions?
The reason I'm asking is that I ran into a bug when upgrading from
linux-edge v6.1.1 to v6.1.8 (external disks not recognized, yet to be
bisected[1]) and I thought "Hah! I'll just go back to linux-lts", only to
find out that both are the same versions now :-\
Does anybody know details behind these versions? I thought about posting
to ~alpine/devel but that list didn't look too active and seems to have a
spam problem too.
Thanks for your input,
Christian.
[0] https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/commits/master/{main,community}/linux-{lts,edge}
[1] https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/4fe9541e-4d4c-2b2a-f8c8-2d34a7284930@nerdbynature.de/
--
BOFH excuse #344:
Network failure - call NBC
Christian Kujau wrote in
<11ef5892-ee4f-fab7-4eda-81eaca667ee8@nerdbynature.de>:
|I was wondering about the packages linux-lts (main) and linux-edge
|(community). LTS suggests some kind of Long Term Support, the "more stable
|version" of the Linux kernel. But I noticed that both versions are
|basically the same, and have been for some time, according to their commit
|histories[0]: linux-lts was bumped to 6.1.8 on Jan 24, linux-edge on the
|same day.
kernel.org still does not mention that 6.1.* is a LTS.
I have *zero* insight, but by accident stumbled upon a mail thread
(i think via lwn.net?) where people are hm aggressively asking
whether 6.1 will be the next LTS (months before it was released,
then again in i think December), provocating bugged responses from
Greg K-H. Which is why i *think* that 6.1 is not an "official
announced" LTS.
Alpine surely switched to 6.1 *immediately* once it came out,
making me afraid a bit.
--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)
On Tue, 31 Jan 2023, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote:
> kernel.org still does not mention that 6.1.* is a LTS.
That's right, kernel.org specifies 6.1.8 as stable, but their latest
longterm (LTS) version is 5.15.90. So, maybe Alpine linux-lts could ship
their longterm version instead? OTOH, that way I would have never stumbled
across this bug :-)
Thanks,
Christian.
--
BOFH excuse #344:
Network failure - call NBC
On Tue Jan 31, 2023 at 10:32 PM CET, Christian Kujau wrote:
> Hi folks,>> I was wondering about the packages linux-lts (main) and linux-edge > (community). LTS suggests some kind of Long Term Support, the "more stable > version" of the Linux kernel. But I noticed that both versions are > basically the same, and have been for some time, according to their commit > histories[0]: linux-lts was bumped to 6.1.8 on Jan 24, linux-edge on the > same day.>> So, my first question is: what's the rationale behind these packages? > Looking at kernel.org, v6.1.8 *is* actually the current stable version. > But what should -edge be? Maybe current mainline, i.e. the -rc versions?
lts follows latest lts, and edge follows latest stable. as mentioned in the
other response, the intention was that 6.1 would be the next lts, ncopa just
seemingly made that change early.
you say "are basically the same, and have been for some time", but it has been
~1.5 months since this specific upgrade, not multiple years of following the
same versions or something.
on top of that, the change is only **in the edge branch**. alpine indeed only
ships the latest lts in stable releases, nothing changed.
personally, i wouldn't have upgraded -lts to 6.1 before it was announced as
'lts' (specifically to curb this kind of confusion), but i also don't think
anything wrong was really done here. the edge branch is, well, unstable edge,
and 6.1 is most likely the next lts, just later rather sooner.
> The reason I'm asking is that I ran into a bug when upgrading from > linux-edge v6.1.1 to v6.1.8 (external disks not recognized, yet to be > bisected[1]) and I thought "Hah! I'll just go back to linux-lts", only to > find out that both are the same versions now :-\
you could use 3.17 i suppose. mixing repositories between branches isn't
supported, but for the kernel specifically it should work (no library
dependencies), so you could add linux-lts from the 3.17-stable repository.
> Does anybody know details behind these versions?
as mentioned above, -edge is latest-stable and -lts is latest-lts. on top of
that, -edge has a completely different configuration.
> I thought about posting to ~alpine/devel but that list didn't look too> active and seems to have a spam problem too.
it is a working and monitored mailing list just like this one. and just like
every mailing list in the world, full of spam :-)
>> Thanks for your input,> Christian.>> [0] https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/commits/master/{main,community}/linux-{lts,edge}> [1] https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/4fe9541e-4d4c-2b2a-f8c8-2d34a7284930@nerdbynature.de/> -- > BOFH excuse #344:>> Network failure - call NBC
On Tue, 31 Jan 2023, alice wrote:
> lts follows latest lts, and edge follows latest stable. as mentioned in the
Which "lts" are you referring to? kernel.org has 5.15.91 declared as
"longterm", latest stable is indeed 6.1.8 (well, 6.1.9 as of today).
> other response, the intention was that 6.1 would be the next lts, ncopa just> seemingly made that change early.
Yes, that could be. However, as GregKH mentione before, only the
pointy-hair-crystal-ball knows which versions will end up being LTS :-)
> you say "are basically the same, and have been for some time", but it has been> ~1.5 months since this specific upgrade, not multiple years of following the
Ah, good to know. So both versions *were* actually different, I just
looked at a time when both versions converged.
> on top of that, the change is only **in the edge branch**. alpine indeed only> ships the latest lts in stable releases, nothing changed.
That's true, that's the price of running -edge :-)
Thanks for responding,
Christian.
[0] https://people.kernel.org/gregkh/next-long-term-supported-kernel-release
--
BOFH excuse #174:
Backbone adjustment
On Wed Feb 1, 2023 at 11:47 AM CET, Christian Kujau wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jan 2023, alice wrote:> > lts follows latest lts, and edge follows latest stable. as mentioned in the>> Which "lts" are you referring to? kernel.org has 5.15.91 declared as > "longterm", latest stable is indeed 6.1.8 (well, 6.1.9 as of today).https://kernel.org/, and i mentioned the 'exception'/reasoning in this
case (of it being changed early, on speculation of 6.1 being the next lts).
maybe that is wrong, and the next lts is 6.5. in that case it would be a (big)
mistake, and that sometimes happens. mitigate somewhat by the excuse of edge
being edge, etc etc.
(and of course, might be a mistake in general anyway, to not just (always) wait
for the christening, but the list of features was.. quite exciting :-) so i
don't blame ncopa for it.)
>> > other response, the intention was that 6.1 would be the next lts, ncopa just> > seemingly made that change early.>> Yes, that could be. However, as GregKH mentione before, only the > pointy-hair-crystal-ball knows which versions will end up being LTS :-)>> > you say "are basically the same, and have been for some time", but it has been> > ~1.5 months since this specific upgrade, not multiple years of following the>> Ah, good to know. So both versions *were* actually different, I just > looked at a time when both versions converged.>> > on top of that, the change is only **in the edge branch**. alpine indeed only> > ships the latest lts in stable releases, nothing changed.>> That's true, that's the price of running -edge :-)
as mentioned, you could totally import linux-lts from 3.17, e.g.:
$ cat /etc/apk/repositories
...
@3.17-main http://dl-cdn.alpinelinux.org/alpine/v3.17/main
...
$ apk add linux-lts@3.17-main
don't use it for anything else or for any normal packages of course, but that
should be okay (for now.)
>> Thanks for responding,> Christian.>> [0] https://people.kernel.org/gregkh/next-long-term-supported-kernel-release> -- > BOFH excuse #174:>> Backbone adjustment