Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 12:11:37 +0200
From: Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu>
To: alpine-user <alpine-user@lists.alpinelinux.org>
Subject: Re: [alpine-user] How do I add openssh to the packages that
 are loaded at boot time?
Message-ID: <20161028101137.RoGkiP8EL%steffen@sdaoden.eu>
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C=C3=A1g <caoc@riseup.net> wrote:
 |Steffen Nurpmeso wrote:
 |> Yep, don't listen, it is only my personal taste.  I just wondered
 ...
 |> FreeBSD (in practice i have almost the same FreeBSD configuration
 |> since 4.7, it still works) or lean and pragmatic, like runit.
 ...
 |
 |Not a big deal. Many people here see BSDs as superior to Linux
 |in some parts. Alpine, as you see, has minimal amount of GNU
 |components (GCC and make, though I suppose the latter will be replaced
 |one day with NetBSD's bmake). I use a shell from MirBSD (mksh),
 |vi from  BSD's (nvi), count here also mandoc from OpenBSD.

I always dreamed of a Linux Kernel with a BSD userland, it is very
homogenous.  I.e., a basic install ships the complete environment
including compilers etc.  E.g., download or buy an ISO, install
locally, and you are done.  FreeBSD has diverged a bit, it
outsources more and more to packages.  (It can be understood from
the support point of view, but...  Good historic stuff in
usr/share etc. was a good reading and overview when i was new, and
what Linux didn't offer at all.  Despite some GNU manuals, but
that is not Unix, right.) On the other hand its kernel "gets
better and better".  But of course it is far from the driver
support etc. that a Linux kernel can offer.  And things like new
cgroup hierarchies with all that is missing.  Etc.  On the other
hand it is missing.  (And with NanoBSD etc. the system could also
be stripped down for server purposes.)

I don't develop on Alpine, i have a VM with all that stuff, but
since an error resulted in some security mechanism to step in and
throttle fork(2) i guess it was so that it all became completely
unusable (and i failed to find any documentation on how i could
turn that off for my session) i am only doing test runs, and
preparation checks before i update the server.  And that runs
absolutely painless and smooth (i have an inotifyd instance that
drives me insane, but which i need to be able to send rotated logs
via mail; unfortunately a very small patch to offer rotation hooks
was not accepted by busybox).  And thanks again to the Alpine
people who noted local.d, i wouldn't have discovered this on my
own!

I think this is the main problem for me with Linux: that it
evolves so fast and i neither have the time nor the will to keep
up, and dig into kernel documentation or worse to be able to
understand what is going on.  E.g., Alpine release announcements
ship with a git shortlog, ArchLinux and CruxLinux with nothing,
though the latter sends notification mails for security
advisories.  FreeBSD, and also OpenBSD, have detailed
announcements with (in the web form) active links that directly
jump to manual pages, and which give hints shall they be
necessary, etc.  For someone like me this is very helpful, and
i very much appreciate the love that can, and is put into that.

Ciao,

--steffen


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