Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 18:44:02 +0100
From: tlaronde@polynum.com
To: Paul Zillmann <p.zillmann@h6g.de>
Cc: ~alpine/users@lists.alpinelinux.org
Subject: Re: [FOUND] Fluxbox: AltGr not working (azerty keyboard)
Message-ID: <20201106174402.GB1487@polynum.com>
References: <20201105155225.GA7882@polynum.com>
 <58fcdb80-0873-d1aa-bd26-d901eeb31cb9@h6g.de>
 <20201105182032.GA2504@polynum.com>
 <20201105190725.GA73@polynum.com>
 <ca8429b9-39cf-d0d6-8cb5-c36b51f92aa9@h6g.de>
 <20201106061910.GA687@polynum.com>
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In-Reply-To: <20201106061910.GA687@polynum.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30)

Hello,

I finally found it and it has nothing to do with jslinux.

The problem is that NetBSD (and obviously Windows) associates a=20
different keycode to ISO_Level3_Shift (aka AltGr).

On my NetBSD, it associates keycode 0x7c to it, while my keyboard sends
0x71 (and nonetheless, it works ?!!!).

On AlpineLinux, it associates 0x5c to it. So "my" AltGr is not
considered a ISO_Level3_Shift, so not a mod5 hence pressing the key=20
does nothing.

If I send the following rules to xmodmap (under jslinux):

keycode 0x71 =3D ISO_Level3_Shift
add mod5  =3D ISO_Level3_Shift

everything works! (The add rule simply updates the mod5 adding _too_
the new binding.)

So it works under Linux by chance because the mapping is probably the
same.

To verify what one's xmodmap associates run:

xmodmap -pm

(the keycode are in parentheses).

To know what your keyboard is sending, run xev(1), give the focus in a
Xterm and press the key(s).

I wonder how many variations there are around there? I stupidly thought
that the mapping was fixed because of the standardization of USB Hid...

And I wonder how one could find what the different OSes use about
it so that I can add the rules to the xmodmap in order for users
to not have this kind of surprise and to not have the burden to
try to find what the keyboard is sending (there is no xev(1) in
jslinux so one can not resort to this).

HTH

T. Laronde

On Fri, Nov 06, 2020 at 07:19:10AM +0100, tlaronde@polynum.com wrote:
> Hello Paul,
>=20
> On Thu, Nov 05, 2020 at 10:30:34PM +0100, Paul Zillmann wrote:
> > Hey Thierry,
> >=20
> > Am 05.11.20 um 20:07 schrieb tlaronde@polynum.com:
> > >Just a supplementary note:
> > >
> > >I switched under Windows (8.x) with Edge, on the same machine (same
> > >keyboard), and I have the same problem.
> >=20
> > I had no luck under Windows 10 either. Tried Edge (the older version),
> > Chromium and Firefox.
> >=20
> > >If I switch to a German mapping, I don't get AltGr either.
> > >
> > >My keyboard is USB connected. Is your keyboard USB or PS/2 connected?
> > >Because, IIRC, there is a USB specific Hid specification for the mappi=
ng
> > >and it has nothing to do with what was done before.
> >=20
> > With Windows that was USB and VirtIO Input (PCIe that is, I guess...).
> > With Linux both USB native and PS/2 native worked.
> >=20
> > The terminal thingy should be really easy - a TTY in a browser is easy =
to
> > code.
> > Since you can use textareas all inputs can come from the browser native=
ly.
> >=20
> > Framebuffer are a completely different story. I don't know what is used
> > here, could be WebAssembly, could be different ECMAScript versions acco=
rding
> > to the browser's capabilities.
> > Maybe they use input libraries - could be a polling method.
> > Only Fabrice Bellard could give you that info - or someone who read the
> > source code.
> > Have you talked to the developer?
> >=20
> > Btw. strangely the third assignment works for some keys. The Y key has a
> > third assignment of "=BB" in the German layout. This works fine in Wind=
ows.
> >=20
> > Maybe I'm going to check that out with FreeBSD. Unfortunately I've never
> > used NetBSD.
>=20
> Thank you to have taken the time to test and to confirm that there is
> indeed a problem (i.e. it's not only a weird hardware problem on my side).
>=20
> From a cursory look to the sources, there is a keymap mapping in the JS
> code so I will indeed ask Fabrice Bellard if he has some clue.
>=20
> Best,
>=20
> T. Laronde
>=20
> >=20
> > Good luck,
> > - Paul
> >=20
> > >Best,
> > >
> > >T. Laronde
> > >
> > >On Thu, Nov 05, 2020 at 07:20:32PM +0100, tlaronde@polynum.com wrote:
> > >>Hello Paul,
> > >>
> > >>On Thu, Nov 05, 2020 at 06:52:30PM +0100, Paul Zillmann wrote:
> > >>>Hello Thierry,
> > >>>
> > >>>I have some issues understanding your problem.
> > >>>
> > >>>Is your issues that some characters in the linked emulator won't wor=
k, is
> > >>>the problem specific to your kerTeX software?
> > >>Not with kerTeX but with input from the keyboard in the emulator. As
> > >>long as I use an US QWERTY keyboard mapping everything is fine, if I
> > >>select, from the Fluxbox menu a "french" mapping, all the characters
> > >>accessed composing via AltRight key do not work: I get the normal
> > >>character associated with the key; if I use shift+AltRight, the shift=
ed;
> > >>and never the character accessed by AltRight+key.
> > >>
> > >>>Besides that I was unable to locate kerTeX in the Apline repositorie=
s.
> > >>>
> > >>kerTeX is not packaged: it compiles and installs to almost every OS
> > >>(Alpine included) using its own framework (Plan9, *BSD, Linuces, MacO=
SX,
> > >>Windows with a POSIX subsystem for now, but "native" soon. It's libre
> > >>software under a BSD like licence:
> > >>
> > >>http://kertex.kergis.com/
> > >>
> > >>(for the ones who want to try just download the get_mk_install.sh and
> > >>run it---caveats you need a true ed(1) and not the one from Busybox t=
hat
> > >>is sed masquerading as ed(1)).
> > >>
> > >>>Anyway I've tried the emulator - Alpine 3.12 X Window - changed the =
keyboard
> > >>>settings to German.
> > >>>I've opened a terminal and a text editor - both took pipes and other
> > >>>characters accessed by the AltGr key.
> > >>>I'm working with a native German keyboard (QWERTZ) under Manjaro Lin=
ux.
> > >>>
> > >>>I've tried both Firefox 82.0.2 and Chromium 86.0.4240.111 and both w=
orked
> > >>>fine.
> > >>>I'll check on a Windows machine soon.
> > >>>
> > >>>Can you describe your test-scenario for us?
> > >>>What OS are you using, which browser, what's your native keyboard la=
yout -
> > >>>am I testing this right or wrong?
> > >>>
> > >>I'm on NetBSD/amd64 with Firefox 71.0 and vanilla Xorg with twm and
> > >>that's all.
> > >>
> > >>I have a french azerty pc105 keyboard, USB connected.
> > >>
> > >>Firefox gets the correct keys. But the emulator windows not (indeed, =
the
> > >>layers are so numerous that the problem could indeed be in the
> > >>javascript engine and not in the "final" alpine).
> > >>
> > >>Thank you for your help!
> > >>
> > >>>Am 05.11.20 um 16:52 schrieb tlaronde@polynum.com:
> > >>>>Hello,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Fabrice Bellard has developed an emulator in JavaScript, and it is =
now
> > >>>>possible to have, in a browser, Alpine/i586 running. See:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>https://bellard.org/jslinux/
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I'm the developper of KerTeX, a TeX and al. distribution and I'd li=
ke
> > >>>>to let people try it without installing, thus on Alpine/i586 in
> > >>>>JSLinux, the X11 version (there is also a console only version).
> > >>>>
> > >>>>No problem with kerTeX: it works.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>The problem is for non QWERTY users. If I switch the keyboard (right
> > >>>>click menu -> keyboard mapping-> french), all is OK except all the
> > >>>>letters that are accessed with AltGr---and Alt and AltGr simply don=
't
> > >>>>work (preventing from using backslash or pipe, and this is quite a
> > >>>>problem).
> > >>>>
> > >>>>There is no problem with console only (another choice with Alpine L=
inux
> > >>>>on the page above).
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I have searched the Internet about this. There are quite a lot of
> > >>>>similar issues (not only with Alpine or Fluxbox) but no real soluti=
on. I
> > >>>>have tried several "solutions" but the result is the same, or worse.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Does somebody have any clue?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>TIA
> > >>--=20
> > >>         Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
> > >>                      http://www.kergis.com/
> > >>                     http://kertex.kergis.com/
> > >>                        http://www.sbfa.fr/
> > >>Key fingerprint =3D 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
> >=20
> > --=20
> > H6G
> > Paul Zillmann
> > Binzer Str. 17
> > 18107 Rostock
> >=20
> > www.h6g.de
> > mail@h6g.de
> >=20
> > Tel.: (03 81) 36 76 79 27 - 0
>=20
> --=20
>         Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
>                      http://www.kergis.com/
>                     http://kertex.kergis.com/
>                        http://www.sbfa.fr/
> Key fingerprint =3D 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

--=20
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                     http://www.kergis.com/
                    http://kertex.kergis.com/
                       http://www.sbfa.fr/
Key fingerprint =3D 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C