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From: Banibrata Dutta <banibrata.dutta@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 11:03:02 +0530
Message-ID: <CALODqpp2Um=fYA7YAJ-fyo2zkwkEn37BdnrzacH+kw8LkO0=Kw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: PyPy and in general python (reported) bloat issue
To: Wolf <wolf@wolfsden.cz>
Cc: ~alpine/users@lists.alpinelinux.org
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On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 2:03 AM Wolf <wolf@wolfsden.cz> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On 2020-11-16 00:42:18 +0530, Banibrata Dutta wrote:
> > PyPy is opensource software, do not understand your point about
> precompiled
> > binary blobs ?
>
> See comments below.
>
> > >>    1. Make your builds much slower.
>
> When installing python packages (I do not know if they have a name like
> "gems" in ruby), lot of packages then include C code have already
> compiled version available and pip uses them. So for glibc systems you
> just download binary blob. That is faster then to compile it from source
> code (which happens on alpine).
>

Okay got what the "binary blob" reference is to, indeed python packages,
extensions (native compiled, linked with glibc) -- needing wheel files etc.
Many of them are *not* part of typical Python distribution, and thus
porting them is a large, open-ended task, until a very large set of such
packages are ported.

> >>    2. Make your images bigger.
>
> This is usually caused by people leaving things like compilers in the
> final image, so that is their mistake, not alpine's.
>
> > >>    3. Waste your time.
>
> Combination of 1 and 2.
>
> > >>    4. On occassion, introduce obscure runtime bugs.
>
> While this one might be true, the "on occassion" did not happen to me
> yet, so it does not seem to be that common.
>
> 1 and 2 are both solvable given some engineering effort, it depends on
> you situation if the work needed is justified or not.
>

Understand. Just wanted to see if this topic has come up on Alpine user's
group, is it indeed a problem people faced, and to see if anyone is aware
of any plans by Alpine developers to solve this in near future.

Wondering, if there is any concept of people voting on Github issues
(feature request) for Alpine ?

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_attr">On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 2:03 AM Wolf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wolf@=
wolfsden.cz">wolf@wolfsden.cz</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello,<br>
<br>
On 2020-11-16 00:42:18 +0530, Banibrata Dutta wrote:<br>
&gt; PyPy is opensource software, do not understand your point about precom=
piled<br>
&gt; binary blobs ?<br>
<br>
See comments below.<br>
<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1. Make your builds much slower.<br>
<br>
When installing python packages (I do not know if they have a name like<br>
&quot;gems&quot; in ruby), lot of packages then include C code have already=
<br>
compiled version available and pip uses them. So for glibc systems you<br>
just download binary blob. That is faster then to compile it from source<br=
>
code (which happens on alpine).<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Okay go=
t what the &quot;binary blob&quot; reference is to, indeed python packages,=
 extensions (native compiled, linked with glibc) -- needing wheel files etc=
.</div><div>Many of them are *not* part of typical Python distribution, and=
 thus porting them is a large, open-ended task, until a very large set of s=
uch packages are ported.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex">
&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2. Make your images bigger.<br>
<br>
This is usually caused by people leaving things like compilers in the<br>
final image, so that is their mistake, not alpine&#39;s.<br>
<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 3. Waste your time.<br>
<br>
Combination of 1 and 2.<br>
<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4. On occassion, introduce obscure runtime bugs.=
<br>
<br>
While this one might be true, the &quot;on occassion&quot; did not happen t=
o me<br>
yet, so it does not seem to be that common.<br>
<br>
1 and 2 are both solvable given some engineering effort, it depends on<br>
you situation if the work needed is justified or not.<br></blockquote><div>=
<br></div><div>Understand. Just wanted to see if this topic has come up on =
Alpine user&#39;s group, is it indeed a problem people faced, and to see if=
 anyone is aware of any plans by Alpine developers to solve this in near fu=
ture.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Wondering, if there is any concept of pe=
ople voting on Github issues (feature request) for Alpine ? <br></div><br><=
/div></div>

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