Subject: wayland support vs xorg support in alpine!

From: PICCORO McKAY Lenz <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 21:10:52 -0400

i have hear about gnome and new wayland integration.. of course we know
that desktop is not in main alpine repository.. but..

*my question is... between wayland and xorg alpine linux do you opt for
what everyone uses or for one in particular?*

Let's keep in mind that although wayland has developed in current times
with many resources and large communities: in more than 10 years it has not
been completely stable and leaves all the work to the toolkit libraries

On the other hand, xorg, although it has design details, today it is
incorrectly called "failure issues", since we do not take into account that
its main objective was for a time when this protocol was used on local
networks and not on the Internet, and and, in that era one service was one
powered computer. today any modern computer has enough power for all of
this.

Lenz McKAY Gerardo (PICCORO)
http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com

---

From: Leo <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 04:03:39 -0300

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 21:10:52 -0400
PICCORO McKAY Lenz <[email-masked]> wrote:

> i have hear about gnome and new wayland integration.. of course we
> know that desktop is not in main alpine repository.. but..
> 
> *my question is... between wayland and xorg alpine linux do you opt
> for what everyone uses or for one in particular?*
> 
> Let's keep in mind that although wayland has developed in current
> times with many resources and large communities: in more than 10
> years it has not been completely stable and leaves all the work to
> the toolkit libraries
> 
> incorrectly called "failure issues", since we do not take into
> account that its main objective was for a time when this protocol was
> used on local networks and not on the Internet, and and, in that era
> one service was one powered computer. today any modern computer has
> enough power for all of this.
> 
> 

Hello.

GNOME is in community/ and uses Wayland by default, users must pick
GNOME on Xorg to get X11.

As far as I'm aware Alpine will follow upstream, if they pick Wayland
then Wayland will be used.

Regards
Leo

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From: PICCORO McKAY Lenz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 10:19:40 -0400

El lun., 19 de oct. de 2020 a la(s) 03:03, Leo ([email-masked])
escribió:

> it makes sense as ncopa mentioned to me some time ago.. that will be the
default only in that desktop case! alpine just packs without altering much
the original, *but is not that i asked.. *that you mention is not the only
desktop today available in alpine linux, i know alpine is not used for
desktops.. but i hope that is not the official response cos the other
amount of desktops does not used wayland yet

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From: Wolf <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 15:14:51 +0200

Hello,

> amount of desktops does not used wayland yet

In the end it is up to your choice. If you pick a WM (or DE) that does
support Wayland, nothing stops your from using Wayland in Alpine.
However, if the WM (or DE) does support only X11, there is nothing
Alpine can (or will) do about that. If you want the Wayland support
there, you need to go ask upstream of those projects. Alpine just ships
whatever is upstream.

At least that is mine understanding of Alpine policies on the matter.

W.

-- 
There are only two hard things in Computer Science:
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.

---

From: PICCORO McKAY Lenz <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 09:37:04 -0400

> there, you need to go ask upstream of those projects. Alpine just ships

so then, there's no preference, if world will kill X11 so alpine will kill
X11 right?

currently all the desktops (minus one) uses X11/xorg so alpine until that
changes will use xorg (if there's some official desktop)

---

From: David Demelier <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 16:08:31 +0200

> On 20 Oct 2020, at 15:37, PICCORO McKAY Lenz <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> so then, there's no preference, if world will kill X11 so alpine will kill X11 right?

Don’t panic, X.Org won’t disappear anytime soon. Wayland although stable is still experimental in many areas where bugs still exist. It’s not usable on all OS (excluding Linux) as such X.Org will stay for a long time being. For example, it is still quite experimental to run wayland on FreeBSD (many freezes) and not even supported on OpenBSD.

Even though X.Org is an unloved system, it is still required right now.

> currently all the desktops (minus one) uses X11/xorg so alpine until that changes will use xorg (if there's some official desktop)

Alpine policies is not to remove “outdated” features in favor of modern alternatives. We do remove things that are totally obsoleted and no longer used but since libx11 is still a major requirement it will stay.

-- 
David

---

From: PICCORO McKAY Lenz <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 17:27:36 -0400

> Alpine policies is not to remove “outdated” features in favor of modern
> alternatives. We do remove things that are totally obsoleted and no longer
> used but since libx11 is still a major requirement it will stay.
>
That is a total lie, gtkglext was removed and is necessary for many
software today, i send a mail with a hard disgusting respond respect that!

> Don’t panic, X.Org won’t disappear anytime soon. Wayland although stable
> is still experimental in many areas where bugs still exist. It’s not usable
> on all OS (excluding Linux) as such X.Org will stay for a long time being.
> For example, it is still quite experimental to run wayland on FreeBSD (many
> freezes) and not even supported on OpenBSD.
>
is a logic behavior..

> Even though X.Org is an unloved system, it is still required right now.
pardon me! but xorg lived so much respect wayland

---

From: David Demelier <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 08:42:59 +0200

> On 20 Oct 2020, at 23:27, PICCORO McKAY Lenz <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> El mar., 20 de oct. de 2020 a la(s) 10:08, David Demelier ([email-masked]) escribió:
> That is a total lie, gtkglext was removed and is necessary for many software today, i send a mail with a hard disgusting respond respect that!
>  

At that time, no package required gtkglext in the repository. Unmaintained leaves are retired for security and maintenance effort reasons.

-- 
David

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From: Ariadne Conill <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 12:52:33 -0600

Hello,

On Tuesday, October 20, 2020 3:27:36 PM MDT PICCORO McKAY Lenz wrote:
> > > On 20 Oct 2020, at 15:37, PICCORO McKAY Lenz <[email-masked]>
> > 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 

gtkglext (as we shipped it) only works with gtk2, and I only packaged it for 
the OpenGL visualizers that shipped in Audacious (before it was ported to Qt).

Please also be mindful of our Code of Conduct, which includes, amongst other 
things, assuming good faith toward other participants, and not linking to 
select messages in discussion threads in your telegram group describing a 
single contributor's position as "official" in order to encourage a dog pile on 
them.

Ariadne

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From: PICCORO McKAY Lenz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 16:10:11 -0400

please point me where the telegram group said "oficial" ok! stop liying!
Lenz McKAY Gerardo (PICCORO)
http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com

El jue., 22 de oct. de 2020 a la(s) 14:52, Ariadne Conill (
[email-masked]) escribió:

> > > > On 20 Oct 2020, at 15:37, PICCORO McKAY Lenz <[email-masked]
> >
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >

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From: Wolf <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 10:15:44 +0100

Ok I will say it out loud (not sure if breaking the CoC by it): this
guys seems toxic.

> http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com

Could you please, please, choose a bit less confrontational approach to
communication? Exclamation marks everywhere, accusing people of lying,
taking shortcuts and cherry-picking arguments... This aggressive style
does not seem to be very productive and it does not have positive
influence on the community. Please consider changing it.

Thank you,

W.

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From: Magyar Nándor <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 09:32:29 +0000

I also typed this exact previous message twice, but I was also afraid that
is also a violation and now I am sending it.

Telling people that it was a joke or exaggeration is also not ok, because
this is a place for serious & professional discussions.
Neither of the above should involve any type of sarcasm or jokes.

Please note that with a language also comes its habits and cultural norms
(syntax + semantics) - if you are not native english.

I have never really contacted anyone here ever, but I am a big fan of
Alpine and I like to see you all grow and toxicity won't help and a waste
of time and energy.
I appreciate all the work done by every one of you, including PICCORO.

I am unsure if it does even matter, but please consider being a bit less
toxic.

Regards,
Nandor