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Blind User Needs to Have All Mail Presented at start

David J. Ring, Jr. <n1ea@arrl.net>
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Hello,

I am helping a blind user, he wants to have his gmail emails presented 
when he runs "alpine" seen from most recent and in the directory that 
shows the new mail.

Google has changed this recently so his mail doesn't show, he can enter 
"c" and change directory to GMAIL then All Mail - but can this be 
configured for his ease in his pinerc file?

If anyone can direct me to a good usable gmail pinerc file on the 
Internet that would be wonderful if it makes the answer easier.

Regards,

David Ring

N1EA
Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>
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Hi,

On 2023-11-29 01:34:54 -0500, David J. Ring, Jr. wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am helping a blind user, he wants to have his gmail emails presented when
> he runs "alpine" seen from most recent and in the directory that shows the
> new mail.

This is mailing list for Alpine, the linux distribution, not Alpine, the email
client.

>
> Google has changed this recently so his mail doesn't show, he can enter "c"
> and change directory to GMAIL then All Mail - but can this be configured for
> his ease in his pinerc file?
>
> If anyone can direct me to a good usable gmail pinerc file on the Internet
> that would be wonderful if it makes the answer easier.
>
> Regards,
>
> David Ring
>
> N1EA
>

Tomas

--
There are only two hard things in Computer Science:
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
D.J.J. Ring, Jr. <n1ea@arrl.net>
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Does Alpine Linux have a  console level interface installation with a
screen reader?

Thanks,

David

On Wed, Nov 29, 2023, 4:20 AM Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 2023-11-29 01:34:54 -0500, David J. Ring, Jr. wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am helping a blind user, he wants to have his gmail emails presented
> when
> > he runs "alpine" seen from most recent and in the directory that shows
> the
> > new mail.
>
> This is mailing list for Alpine, the linux distribution, not Alpine, the
> email
> client.
>
> >
> > Google has changed this recently so his mail doesn't show, he can enter
> "c"
> > and change directory to GMAIL then All Mail - but can this be configured
> for
> > his ease in his pinerc file?
> >
> > If anyone can direct me to a good usable gmail pinerc file on the
> Internet
> > that would be wonderful if it makes the answer easier.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > David Ring
> >
> > N1EA
> >
>
> Tomas
>
> --
> There are only two hard things in Computer Science:
> cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
>
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On Wed, 2023-11-29 at 10:56 -0500, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:
> Does Alpine Linux have a  console level interface installation with a
> screen reader?

Hi,

I don't know. However, are you aware that "Alpine Linux is built around
musl libc and busybox"? - https://www.alpinelinux.org/about/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BusyBox

I have got an install on my PC, while you can use it for daily work, I
don't do so. The all-day commands provided by busybox are not 100%
identical to the commands you are used from major distros. A lot of
commands are linked against busybox [1]. 

Btw. I also run it on iPadOS.
https://apps.apple.com/de/app/ish-shell/id1436902243
https://github.com/ish-app/ish

I'm not an expert on Linux for visual impaired, but maybe a starting
point is https://blindcomputing.org/ .

My install for daily work is Arch Linux. On the Arch mailing list are
several visually impaired users. If you are looking for a distro that is
different to user-friendly major distros and if you should be fine with
systemd consider to take a look at Arch Linux.

"User centrality

Whereas many GNU/Linux distributions attempt to be more user-friendly,
Arch Linux has always been, and shall always remain user-centric."
- https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_Linux#User_centrality 

"Install Arch Linux with accessibility options

The official Arch Linux installation medium supports various
Accessibility features:

    speech is provided by the espeakup package
    braille terminal support is handled by the brltty package

This document describes how to install Arch Linux using these features.
Note: This page describes only steps which are different from the
Installation guide.

[...]" - https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Install_Arch_Linux_with_accessibility_options

Regards,
Ralf

[1]
• rocketmouse@archlinux ~ 
$ /bin/ls -hl /mnt/m1.alpine/bin/ | grep busy
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 arch -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 ash -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 base64 -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 bbconfig -> /bin/busybox
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 798K Jun  2 02:42 busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 cat -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 chattr -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 chgrp -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 chmod -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 chown -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 cp -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 date -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 dd -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 df -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 dmesg -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 dnsdomainname -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 dumpkmap -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 echo -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 ed -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 egrep -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 false -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 fatattr -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 fdflush -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 fgrep -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 fsync -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 getopt -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 grep -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 gunzip -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 gzip -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 hostname -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 ionice -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 iostat -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 ipcalc -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 kbd_mode -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 kill -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 link -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 linux32 -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 linux64 -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 ln -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 login -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 ls -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 lsattr -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 lzop -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 makemime -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 mkdir -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 mknod -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 mktemp -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 more -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 mountpoint -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 mpstat -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 mv -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 netstat -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 nice -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 pidof -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 ping -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 ping6 -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 pipe_progress -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 printenv -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 ps -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 pwd -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 reformime -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 rev -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 rm -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 rmdir -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 run-parts -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 sed -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 setpriv -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 setserial -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 Jun  2 08:57 sh -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 sleep -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 stat -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 stty -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 sync -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 touch -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 true -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 uname -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 usleep -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 watch -> /bin/busybox
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   12 May 27  2023 zcat -> /bin/busybox
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PS:

Oops, one link wasn't in English.

> Btw. I also run it on iPadOS.
> https://apps.apple.com/de/app/ish-shell/id1436902243

  https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ish-shell/id1436902243

> https://github.com/ish-app/ish
Страхиња Радић <contact@strahinja.org>
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On 23/11/29 08:06PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> I have got an install on my PC, while you can use it for daily work, I
> don't do so. The all-day commands provided by busybox are not 100%
> identical to the commands you are used from major distros. A lot of
> commands are linked against busybox [1]. 

I use Alpine on desktop. The "inadequacy" of Alpine for desktop is a widespread 
myth, which needs to stop. Flatpak, DBus, and many graphical programs are 
available on Alpine.

If one really can't live without the GNU versions of standard utilities, they 
are available in the repos:

	apk info coreutils
	apk info sed
	apk info awk
	apk info bash

and so on, but Busybox is also quite usable when one restrains oneself to using 
POSIX instead of GNU-isms. (It's not that hard!)
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On Thu, 2023-11-30 at 00:03 +0100, Страхиња Радић wrote:
> On 23/11/29 08:06PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > I have got an install on my PC, while you can use it for daily work, I
> > don't do so. The all-day commands provided by busybox are not 100%
> > identical to the commands you are used from major distros. A lot of
> > commands are linked against busybox [1]. 
> 
> I use Alpine on desktop. The "inadequacy" of Alpine for desktop is a widespread 
> myth, which needs to stop. Flatpak, DBus, and many graphical programs are 
> available on Alpine.

Hi,

actually I don't spread this "myth".

> If one really can't live without the GNU versions of standard utilities, they 
> are available in the repos:
> 
> 	apk info coreutils
> 	apk info sed
> 	apk info awk
> 	apk info bash
> 
> and so on, but Busybox is also quite usable when one restrains oneself to using 
> POSIX instead of GNU-isms. (It's not that hard!)

Nobody said that it's hard. If somebody wants a real POSIX experience,
it's also not hard to install FreeBSD.

Keep in mind the OP probably confused Alpine the MUA with Alpine the
distro. At least the OP asked for a "console level interface
installation with a screen reader".

IMO it doesn't harm to mention that Alpine isn't comparable to e.g.
Ubuntu and that even if a more user-centric approach is wanted, a distro
such as Arch Linux, Gentoo etc. might be more suitable for many users. A
wide variety of needs, even niche needs, are better supported by other
distros.

Summarised

That "Alpine Linux is built around musl libc and busybox" is from
https://www.alpinelinux.org/about/ . While a real Linux standard base
never existed, you probably agree that at least a base Alpin install is
quite unusual for most Linux based desktop computers.

IMO it's worth mentioning, just in case ...

Regards,
Ralf
Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com>
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On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 1:35 AM David J. Ring, Jr. <n1ea@arrl.net> wrote:
>
> I am helping a blind user, he wants to have his gmail emails presented
> when he runs "alpine" seen from most recent and in the directory that
> shows the new mail.
>
> Google has changed this recently so his mail doesn't show, he can enter
> "c" and change directory to GMAIL then All Mail - but can this be
> configured for his ease in his pinerc file?
>
> If anyone can direct me to a good usable gmail pinerc file on the
> Internet that would be wonderful if it makes the answer easier.

Tomas and Ralf said you probably want the Alpine email mailing list.
If that is the case, then you can find the Alpine email mailing list
here: <https://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info>.

(I have not seen a similar post to the Alpine email list, so I want to
ensure you have a link to the list, if needed).

Jeff
Страхиња Радић <contact@strahinja.org>
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On 23/11/30 12:47AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> IMO it doesn't harm to mention that Alpine isn't comparable to e.g.
> Ubuntu and that even if a more user-centric approach is wanted, a distro
> such as Arch Linux, Gentoo etc. might be more suitable for many users. A
> wide variety of needs, even niche needs, are better supported by other
> distros.

AFAIK Arch doesn't have a graphical install yet (Arch-based Artix, which I 
helped maintain a part of, optionally has), so for a "casual user" it is not 
that much different. All packages need to be installed from the command line, 
by using pacman.

Can't comment on Gentoo since I never used it.
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On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 10:56:23 -0500
"D.J.J. Ring, Jr." <n1ea@arrl.net> wrote:

> Does Alpine Linux have a  console level interface installation

yes

> with a screen reader?

no. But I think it may make sense to add support for it. The installer
is text based and I assume it would work fairly well with a screen
reader.

-nc
D.J.J. Ring, Jr. <n1ea@arrl.net>
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Yes, if it has a text based installer it would be a perfect candidate.

Thanks for the help.

David

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 8:00 AM Natanael Copa <ncopa@alpinelinux.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 10:56:23 -0500
> "D.J.J. Ring, Jr." <n1ea@arrl.net> wrote:
>
> > Does Alpine Linux have a  console level interface installation
>
> yes
>
> > with a screen reader?
>
> no. But I think it may make sense to add support for it. The installer
> is text based and I assume it would work fairly well with a screen
> reader.
>
> -nc
>
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