Hi!
Would like to suggest moving -dbg pkgs in repositories into a separate
folder. eg.
main/aarch64.dbg or community/aarch64.dbg/
OR
main.dbg/aarch64 or community.dbg/aarch64
Suggested change is desirable because:
1. Users who would want to install -dbg pkgs are willing to do
debugging. They are mostly development oriented.
2. Mirrors may opt to ignore these .dbg folder, thereby saving some disk
space.
--
Regards,
V.Krishn
On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 11:08:31PM +0530, V.Krishn wrote:
> 2. Mirrors may opt to ignore these .dbg folder, thereby saving some disk> space.
Mirrors can do that: rsync ... --exclude -*-dbg.apk' ...
On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 07:47:19PM +0300, Konstantin Shelekhin wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 11:08:31PM +0530, V.Krishn wrote:> > 2. Mirrors may opt to ignore these .dbg folder, thereby saving some disk> > space.> > Mirrors can do that: rsync ... --exclude -*-dbg.apk' ...
The index will still list those packages, so users would be confused
where it looks like they can install the packages, but then not
available on the mirror.
On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 05:49:16PM +0000, Kevin Daudt wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 07:47:19PM +0300, Konstantin Shelekhin wrote:> > On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 11:08:31PM +0530, V.Krishn wrote:> > > 2. Mirrors may opt to ignore these .dbg folder, thereby saving some disk> > > space.> > > > Mirrors can do that: rsync ... --exclude -*-dbg.apk' ...> > The index will still list those packages, so users would be confused> where it looks like they can install the packages, but then not> available on the mirror.
Yeah, makes sense.
On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 11:08:31PM +0530, V.Krishn wrote:
> > Hi!> > Would like to suggest moving -dbg pkgs in repositories into a separate> folder. eg.> main/aarch64.dbg or community/aarch64.dbg/> OR> main.dbg/aarch64 or community.dbg/aarch64> > Suggested change is desirable because:> 1. Users who would want to install -dbg pkgs are willing to do debugging.> They are mostly development oriented.> 2. Mirrors may opt to ignore these .dbg folder, thereby saving some disk> space.> > --> Regards,> V.Krishn
The question is if it is possible to move subpackages to a different
repository as the origin package.
On 1/20/23 01:44, Kevin Daudt wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 11:08:31PM +0530, V.Krishn wrote:>>>> Hi!>>>> Would like to suggest moving -dbg pkgs in repositories into a separate>> folder. eg.>> main/aarch64.dbg or community/aarch64.dbg/>> OR>> main.dbg/aarch64 or community.dbg/aarch64>>>> Suggested change is desirable because:>> 1. Users who would want to install -dbg pkgs are willing to do debugging.>> They are mostly development oriented.>> 2. Mirrors may opt to ignore these .dbg folder, thereby saving some disk>> space.>>>> -->> Regards,>> V.Krishn> > The question is if it is possible to move subpackages to a different> repository as the origin package.
Would need minor changes.
1. change REPODEST temporarily.
2. move -dbg pkgs to .dbg folder.
3. move rest to normal folder.
4. re-generate index in each folder.
But real hurdle could be more, and can be pointed out by devs running
the build servers.
--
Regards,
V.Krishn
On Thu Jan 19, 2023 at 6:38 PM CET, V.Krishn wrote:
>> Hi!>> Would like to suggest moving -dbg pkgs in repositories into a separate > folder. eg.> main/aarch64.dbg or community/aarch64.dbg/> OR> main.dbg/aarch64 or community.dbg/aarch64>> Suggested change is desirable because:> 1. Users who would want to install -dbg pkgs are willing to do > debugging. They are mostly development oriented.
this is a downgrade because you now need to add more repositories to install
-dbg packages. this is, of course, assuming it's even possible to split
subpackages into another repository in the first place.
> 2. Mirrors may opt to ignore these .dbg folder, thereby saving some disk > space.
they can already do this with excludes passed to the rsync command.
so, what is the benefit?
1) isn't one (more steps to install -dbg packages for users, no upside?)
2) is already true
...2a) the reason not every package has -dbg is because of master mirror space
limitations- but how the folders are structured doesn't change the fact the
master mirror will have every -dbg package on it. the reason not everything has
a -dbg is not related to third party mirrors whatsoever. of course, being
able to host packages on more than one master server is a separate engineering
problem, and would be nice for reasons not related to this proposal (and would
also make it redundant anyway).
as far as i can see, this has *zero* practical upside, for any party involved:
the master mirror, third party mirrors, or users.
i guess you want this to have more -dbg packages (though you don't mention
that); getting those is not impacted by this extra repository layout at all.
>> --> Regards,> V.Krishn
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 20:14:33 +0000
Kevin Daudt <kdaudt@alpinelinux.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 11:08:31PM +0530, V.Krishn wrote:> > > > Would like to suggest moving -dbg pkgs in repositories into a> > separate folder. eg.> > main/aarch64.dbg or community/aarch64.dbg/
This is not possible with changing apk code.
> > OR> > main.dbg/aarch64 or community.dbg/aarch64
This or some similar option like main-dbg, or dbg/main would be
possible without touch apk code.
> > Suggested change is desirable because:> > 1. Users who would want to install -dbg pkgs are willing to do> > debugging. They are mostly development oriented.
This would mean that new repositories need to be added if user wants to
use debug packages. Or perhaps adding some new apk feature to make
enablign the debug repos possible some other way.
> > 2. Mirrors may opt to ignore these .dbg folder, thereby saving some> > disk space.
Understand. These can be fairly large at times. And it would be also
possible to configure close mirror without -dbg and another mirror with
the -dbg packages.
As an additional benefit the repository indexes without dbg packages
would be smaller - possibly helping embedded systems. And as mentioned
allow perhaps turning -dbg on by default (assuming we have enough disk
space on main mirrors).
> The question is if it is possible to move subpackages to a different> repository as the origin package.
From apk-tools side there is no problem. Having subpackages in a
separate repo is perfectly ok.
The complication comes from the building side. It would need special
logic to move the -dbg pacakges to different repository. And changes to
rebuild multiple indexes, and uploading to right place.
abuild also has assumptions that all generated packages are in same
destionation. This applies to detecting whether a rebuild is needed,
and on removing obsoleted packages.
All of the above should be doable, but might be non-trivial in some
cases.
I think the idea is good. But am not sure if/when someone would have
time to work on it. Would someone be willing to do the work if no one
objects for the change?
Timo
On 1/21/23 13:27, Timo Teras wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 20:14:33 +0000> Kevin Daudt <kdaudt@alpinelinux.org> wrote:> >> On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 11:08:31PM +0530, V.Krishn wrote:>>>>>> Would like to suggest moving -dbg pkgs in repositories into a>>> separate folder. eg.>>> main/aarch64.dbg or community/aarch64.dbg/> > This is not possible with changing apk code.> >>> OR>>> main.dbg/aarch64 or community.dbg/aarch64> > This or some similar option like main-dbg, or dbg/main would be> possible without touch apk code.> >>> Suggested change is desirable because:>>> 1. Users who would want to install -dbg pkgs are willing to do>>> debugging. They are mostly development oriented.> > This would mean that new repositories need to be added if user wants to
If user are installing -dbg pkgs, it can be expected to know things
around apk, /etc/apk/.. and the ability to add a line or two in
/etc/apk/repositories
> use debug packages. Or perhaps adding some new apk feature to make> enablign the debug repos possible some other way.
Making it simple is always welcomed, but that would first need
formalizing on variables like repo path .. etc. Maybe modifying apk
could wait.
> >>> 2. Mirrors may opt to ignore these .dbg folder, thereby saving some>>> disk space.> > Understand. These can be fairly large at times. And it would be also> possible to configure close mirror without -dbg and another mirror with> the -dbg packages.> > As an additional benefit the repository indexes without dbg packages> would be smaller - possibly helping embedded systems.
Already happening.
And as mentioned
> allow perhaps turning -dbg on by default (assuming we have enough disk> space on main mirrors).> >> The question is if it is possible to move subpackages to a different>> repository as the origin package.> > From apk-tools side there is no problem. Having subpackages in a> separate repo is perfectly ok.> > The complication comes from the building side. It would need special> logic to move the -dbg pacakges to different repository. And changes to> rebuild multiple indexes, and uploading to right place.> > abuild also has assumptions that all generated packages are in same> destionation. This applies to detecting whether a rebuild is needed,> and on removing obsoleted packages.> > All of the above should be doable, but might be non-trivial in some> cases.> > I think the idea is good. But am not sure if/when someone would have> time to work on it. Would someone be willing to do the work if no one> objects for the change?
Thanks for clarifications.
Looking forward in positive way :)
> > Timo
--
Regards,
V.Krishn