err ariadne! seems do you send that only to me! .. but dont wory i reply to
mail list anyway..

El mar., 21 de ene. de 2020 a la(s) 15:26, Ariadne Conill (
ariadne@dereferenced.org) escribió:

> Why not make a desktop spin yourself?  It is pretty easy to do.
>
alpine are already a live flavor.. maybe do you means make a alpine with
default desktop..


> XFCE was moved to community because of our desire to reduce the size of
> the main distribution repository.

it makes sense thanks for the info.. why that are not public in the news
channel at the web page?


>   Many packages in main have been moved
> over time to community.  This is simply because we would like main to
> reflect a small core distribution.
>
so seems alpine are not for end users.. blind persons cannot install..
seems the about page must be updated so.. still said "general purpose"


> Alpine largely prefers to stick to the essentials and let downstream
> spins handle things like this.
>
umm makes sense.. thaks for that info. so are nto suitable to desktops end
users and daily work?

In some cases, it is beneficial for Alpine to sync
> up with what downstream consumers are doing, but that isn't a hard
> requirement.
>
but it's beneficial.. remenber that it's better to grow a little rather
than fall into lack of manpowers..



>
> Ariadne
>

Hello,

January 21, 2020 2:46 PM, "PICCORO McKAY Lenz" <mckaygerhard@gmail.com> wrote:

> err ariadne! seems do you send that only to me! .. but dont wory i reply to mail list anyway..
> 
> El mar., 21 de ene. de 2020 a la(s) 15:26, Ariadne Conill (ariadne@dereferenced.org) escribió:
> 
>> Why not make a desktop spin yourself? It is pretty easy to do.
> 
> alpine are already a live flavor.. maybe do you means make a alpine with default desktop..

I mean: why don't you take Alpine and build a desktop distribution
on top of it?

>> XFCE was moved to community because of our desire to reduce the size of
>> the main distribution repository.
> 
> it makes sense thanks for the info.. why that are not public in the news channel at the web page?

Most people enable the community repository as it is.  In most cases,
this is an absolutely boring change.  Therefore there is nothing really
to discuss about it.

>> Many packages in main have been moved
>> over time to community. This is simply because we would like main to
>> reflect a small core distribution.
> so seems alpine are not for end users.. blind persons cannot install..
> seems the about page must be updated so.. still said "general purpose"

Alpine is for end users who are comfortable with basic system administration
tasks.  It is not an alternative to Ubuntu, Fedora or any of those kinds
of distributions.  The primary benefits to using Alpine (lack of systemd,
musl C library, hardened toolchain, advanced package management) are
really only realized by users who have some pre-existing knowledge.

Considering Alpine is installed using text mode and screen readers work
best in text mode, I suspect that Alpine is actually quite easy for a
blind person to install.

But as I have mentioned, a "user friendly" variant of Alpine may be good
for somebody to do, much in the way that Ubuntu is a "user friendly" form
of Debian.

>> Alpine largely prefers to stick to the essentials and let downstream
>> spins handle things like this.
> umm makes sense.. thaks for that info. so are nto suitable to desktops end users and daily work?

It is suitable for those who want a proper workstation environment,
and have the capability to bring it up.  Alpine is not intended to be
something like Ubuntu or openSUSE where everything is handled for you.

If you want something with more handholding, Void or Adelie may fill
those niches, but they are only tangentially related to Alpine.

> 
>> In some cases, it is beneficial for Alpine to sync
>> up with what downstream consumers are doing, but that isn't a hard
>> requirement.
> but it's beneficial.. remenber that it's better to grow a little rather than fall into lack of
> manpowers..

It is not necessarily beneficial.  Focusing on desktop is certainly
not beneficial to Alpine itself, as we would rather let downstream
spins focus on that.

Ariadne

El mar., 21 de ene. de 2020 a la(s) 19:51, Ariadne Conill (
ariadne@dereferenced.org) escribió:

> I mean: why don't you take Alpine and build a desktop distribution
> on top of it?
>
still too much work.. i try to make this more easyle.. and if you only are
all the alpine staff seem rest of the mail sais only one thing.. alpine
only works good for dockers and embebed systems?

too simple are less easy and more work to more complex solutions..

i remenber starting point.. "too simple" was the alpine reasons to make a
new distribution from LEAF .. here comes. and now "too simple" are the same
reason to not make some kind of evolution? incredible!

>> XFCE was moved to community because of our desire to reduce the size of
> >> the main distribution repository.
> >
> > it makes sense thanks for the info.. why that are not public in the news
> channel at the web page?
>
> Most people enable the community repository as it is.  In most cases,
> this is an absolutely boring change.  Therefore there is nothing really
> to discuss about it.
>
> >> Many packages in main have been moved
> >> over time to community. This is simply because we would like main to
> >> reflect a small core distribution.
> > so seems alpine are not for end users.. blind persons cannot install..
> > seems the about page must be updated so.. still said "general purpose"
>
> Alpine is for end users who are comfortable with basic system
> administration
> tasks.  It is not an alternative to Ubuntu, Fedora or any of those kinds
> of distributions.  The primary benefits to using Alpine (lack of systemd,
> musl C library, hardened toolchain, advanced package management) are
> really only realized by users who have some pre-existing knowledge.
>
> Considering Alpine is installed using text mode and screen readers work
> best in text mode, I suspect that Alpine is actually quite easy for a
> blind person to install.
>
> But as I have mentioned, a "user friendly" variant of Alpine may be good
> for somebody to do, much in the way that Ubuntu is a "user friendly" form
> of Debian.
>
> >> Alpine largely prefers to stick to the essentials and let downstream
> >> spins handle things like this.
> > umm makes sense.. thaks for that info. so are nto suitable to desktops
> end users and daily work?
>
> It is suitable for those who want a proper workstation environment,
> and have the capability to bring it up.  Alpine is not intended to be
> something like Ubuntu or openSUSE where everything is handled for you.
>
> If you want something with more handholding, Void or Adelie may fill
> those niches, but they are only tangentially related to Alpine.
>
> >
> >> In some cases, it is beneficial for Alpine to sync
> >> up with what downstream consumers are doing, but that isn't a hard
> >> requirement.
> > but it's beneficial.. remenber that it's better to grow a little rather
> than fall into lack of
> > manpowers..
>
> It is not necessarily beneficial.  Focusing on desktop is certainly
> not beneficial to Alpine itself, as we would rather let downstream
> spins focus on that.
>
> Ariadne
>

On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 20:44:05 -0400
PICCORO McKAY Lenz <mckaygerhard@gmail.com> wrote:

> El mar., 21 de ene. de 2020 a la(s) 19:51, Ariadne Conill (
> ariadne@dereferenced.org) escribió:
> 
> > I mean: why don't you take Alpine and build a desktop distribution
> > on top of it?
> >  
> still too much work.. 

It is equally much work for us.

> i try to make this more easyle.. and if you only are
> all the alpine staff seem rest of the mail sais only one thing.. alpine
> only works good for dockers and embebed systems?

It works good for what *you* make of it. We build the building blocks
for you so you have a simple small base to build *your* stuff on top of
it so you can reach your goals.

We have already done at least 80% of the work for you to build a
desktop distro. We provide you with:

- musl based toolchain
- kernel
- xorg build
- gtk/qt and other librariesi
- various programming languages (python, ruby, perl, go, rust...)
- web browsers

We offer you help with reviewing patches for TDE packages and may even
help you maintain those.

If you want build a desktop oriented distro based on TDE and alpine,
we'd be happy to support you in any reasonable way. But we will not do
it for you just because you demand it or insult us.

> too simple are less easy and more work to more complex solutions..
> 
> i remenber starting point.. "too simple" was the alpine reasons to make a
> new distribution from LEAF .. here comes. and now "too simple" are the same
> reason to not make some kind of evolution? incredible!

If you have different goals than Alpine then maybe Alpine is not the
right tool for you. There are plenty of other more desktop focused
distros out there, so I recommend that you use that instead.

There is a list of candidates on the TDE site.

https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/LiveCDs


-nc

On 2020-01-21 20:44:05, PICCORO McKAY Lenz wrote:
> El mar., 21 de ene. de 2020 a la(s) 19:51, Ariadne Conill (
> ariadne@dereferenced.org) escribió:
> 
> > I mean: why don't you take Alpine and build a desktop distribution
> > on top of it?
> >
> still too much work.. i try to make this more easyle.. and if you only are
> all the alpine staff seem rest of the mail sais only one thing.. alpine
> only works good for dockers and embebed systems?

Did you even read Ariadnes response? The usage of alpine is not
restricted to any particular device class or use case, but depends
mainly on the ability and experience of the user. I myself run alpine on
servers, laptops and desktops, which is absolutely fine.

> i remenber starting point.. "too simple" was the alpine reasons to make a
> new distribution from LEAF .. here comes. and now "too simple" are the same
> reason to not make some kind of evolution? incredible!

Your definition of "evolution" is broken, if it means that alpine has to
get bloated with all sorts of desktop packages or becoming a
full-fledged Ubuntu/Fedora/openSUSE alternative.

-- 
Marco Dickert
marco@misterunknown.de
https://misterunknown.de

El mié., 22 de ene. de 2020 a la(s) 03:49, Natanael Copa (
ncopa@alpinelinux.org) escribió:

> It works good for what *you* make of it. We build the building blocks
> for you so you have a simple small base to build *your* stuff on top of
> it so you can reach your goals.
>
thanks natanael.. first I will try to document the compilation and
execution,

after gaining the experience, I will make the APKBUILD's files to package
..
(although I think it will be a lot of content for the already overloaded
aports repository)


> If you want build a desktop oriented distro based on TDE and alpine,
> we'd be happy to support you in any reasonable way. But we will not do
> it for you just because you demand it or insult us.
>
that's the problem, i can start and begin the work, but i not have the time
to mantain it!


El mié., 22 de ene. de 2020 a la(s) 04:20, Marco Dickert (
marco@misterunknown.de) escribió:

> Did you even read Ariadnes response? The usage of alpine is not
> restricted to any particular device class or use case, but depends
>
Ariadnes are not alpine equal.. has several changes. i want alpine desktop
efforts


> mainly on the ability and experience of the user. I myself run alpine on
> servers, laptops and desktops, which is absolutely fine.
>
Absolute fine.. i agree ! alpine are faster winner in those topics!


> > i remenber starting point.. "too simple" was the alpine reasons to make a
> > new distribution from LEAF .. here comes. and now "too simple" are the
> same
> > reason to not make some kind of evolution? incredible!
> Your definition of "evolution" is broken, if it means that alpine has to
> get bloated with all sorts of desktop packages or becoming a
>
well seems developers from LEAF said the same when alpine started..  X-D



> full-fledged Ubuntu/Fedora/openSUSE alternative.



-nc
>